Rich Life Lab

Money Memories, Knowing How Much Is Enough and Conscious Wealth: Brandon Hatton #4

September 15, 2022 Nathan Hurd
Money Memories, Knowing How Much Is Enough and Conscious Wealth: Brandon Hatton #4
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Rich Life Lab
Money Memories, Knowing How Much Is Enough and Conscious Wealth: Brandon Hatton #4
Sep 15, 2022
Nathan Hurd

#3 - Brandon is President and Chief Investment Officer of Hatton Investments.  He endeavors to help his clients live abundant, intentional lives. He specializes in family dynamics around multi-generational wealth and advises clients who seek to use their financial assets to help make a positive impact through investments and philanthropy.

He is the author of "Conscious Wealth". Conscious Wealth helps readers achieve not only family communication and healthy personal interactions with money but also a means to greater impact the world through investments and a Conscious Wealth philosophy

Falling back on the lessons learned during his own journey, Brandon provides a clearly illustrated mindset around money and a framework around investments, both of which allow readers to focus on what matters most during their wealth creation journey.

Brandon has traveled the world many times over, opened a school in Egypt with a team of four co-founders, and taught history in Lebanon and Brazil. He enjoys sailing, reading poetry, and cooking whenever he has a chance.

Brandon explains what Conscious Wealth is [10:05]

The one question he was taught to ask prospective clients in his early wealth management days and why the financial industry perpetuates scarcity and fear [15:54]

Brandon describes the first level in Conscious Wealth, Abundance. [19:49]

Brandon's own money story about the danger of pursuing money above all else [23:50]

How to discover your own level of scarcity [29:32]

Determining how much money is enough [36:00]

The "Enough Equation" [38:32]

Difference between "enhancement" and "enrichment" and transforming money into purpose [42:08]

Higher levels of Conscious Wealth: Impact and Unity [47:37]

Show Notes Transcript

#3 - Brandon is President and Chief Investment Officer of Hatton Investments.  He endeavors to help his clients live abundant, intentional lives. He specializes in family dynamics around multi-generational wealth and advises clients who seek to use their financial assets to help make a positive impact through investments and philanthropy.

He is the author of "Conscious Wealth". Conscious Wealth helps readers achieve not only family communication and healthy personal interactions with money but also a means to greater impact the world through investments and a Conscious Wealth philosophy

Falling back on the lessons learned during his own journey, Brandon provides a clearly illustrated mindset around money and a framework around investments, both of which allow readers to focus on what matters most during their wealth creation journey.

Brandon has traveled the world many times over, opened a school in Egypt with a team of four co-founders, and taught history in Lebanon and Brazil. He enjoys sailing, reading poetry, and cooking whenever he has a chance.

Brandon explains what Conscious Wealth is [10:05]

The one question he was taught to ask prospective clients in his early wealth management days and why the financial industry perpetuates scarcity and fear [15:54]

Brandon describes the first level in Conscious Wealth, Abundance. [19:49]

Brandon's own money story about the danger of pursuing money above all else [23:50]

How to discover your own level of scarcity [29:32]

Determining how much money is enough [36:00]

The "Enough Equation" [38:32]

Difference between "enhancement" and "enrichment" and transforming money into purpose [42:08]

Higher levels of Conscious Wealth: Impact and Unity [47:37]

00:00:05.790 --> 00:00:12.000
Nathan Hurd: All right, brandon Thank you so much for being here, I am i've been really looking forward to this conversation.

00:00:12.960 --> 00:00:15.330 Thanks thanks for having me thanks for having me.

00:00:16.680 --> 00:00:24.570 I just had to hide myself us to see what's going on behind the scenes here it's a it's absolutely terrible how much we have to look at ourselves in any given day.

00:00:26.400 --> 00:00:30.030
Nathan Hurd: yeah and so much so much more in remote remote living.

00:00:30.570 --> 00:00:34.200 Yes, yes, and I live in Miami beach and.

00:00:35.430 --> 00:00:46.620 it's almost like the land of selfies because, if I don't see myself enough and it is walking down the street and it's constant selfies I go see the sunrise I tried to get to it a couple times a week on the beach.

00:00:47.130 --> 00:00:57.900 And 50% of the people are meditating and the other 50% are just taking selfies or they've got an entire camera crew and I live in the land of the influencer it's interesting.

00:00:58.440 --> 00:01:01.860
Nathan Hurd: Oh, my gosh talk about the land of two extremes there.

00:01:01.860 --> 00:01:03.510
Nathan Hurd: With the meditators and the selfie.

00:01:04.500 --> 00:01:05.610 Chris yeah.

00:01:06.810 --> 00:01:18.870
Nathan Hurd: Well, listen i'm so excited to to dive into your your your experience your wisdom your story and and the wonderful book you've you've put out there, but I thought we might end going back through and.

00:01:19.320 --> 00:01:40.080
Nathan Hurd: doing some research for this interview, I came across a little tidbit from your background, and I wonder if you could speak to it before we dive in which was that, as I understand it, there was a point in time, where you ended up very far from Miami in fact in Egypt as a history teacher.

00:01:40.440 --> 00:01:40.650 yeah.

00:01:40.680 --> 00:01:47.190
Nathan Hurd: And I wonder if you could just share a little bit about how how'd that come to pass, and what was the what was the most interesting part of that experience.

00:01:48.720 --> 00:01:49.200 Who.

00:01:50.850 --> 00:02:02.040 I guess i'll start with everything was interesting every day was just bonkers it was my first time living overseas living overseas because my first time being a teacher is my first time living alone.

00:02:02.790 --> 00:02:12.930 living in a foreign country with a foreign language, because they don't really they didn't really speak English, I mean it was like a lot of firsts and I was full in culture shock.

00:02:13.380 --> 00:02:28.470 Which if you know much about culture shock, the first part is euphoria, which was awesome and then eventually there's the side and then you find equilibrium, where you can learn to accept a society or even I think that's probably just some other type of.

00:02:31.080 --> 00:02:36.270 it's probably an extrapolation of other types of theories that happened with your life all the time when you face something that's extremely different.

00:02:37.140 --> 00:02:50.910 But everything was interesting I loved it how I got there I in summers and spring breaks, I was Julie on the cruise ships, I think, which was like the youth activities director was the best job ever I was working.

00:02:51.600 --> 00:03:03.000 Maximum like 22 hours a week, and just hanging out with kids doing like Bingo and pool parties and making tie dye shirts and traveling the world and.

00:03:04.620 --> 00:03:07.290 You know that was interesting too because we're talking about money, like.

00:03:08.550 --> 00:03:14.370 I was from Cleveland I am from Cleveland Ohio we you know and We grew up in a family, which was in the 1980s.

00:03:15.450 --> 00:03:22.710 You know my father owned a restaurant and I never felt like we had a lot of money, we definitely had more money than I thought, but I always felt like we didn't have a lot.

00:03:23.100 --> 00:03:27.660 But then I went on cruise ships and it was the first time I ever had an Espresso and even heard of Espresso.

00:03:28.320 --> 00:03:41.640 And because there was no starbucks when we grew up and sushi was something really where the people in California never had salmon before seven wasn't as common I mean I don't remember salmon being everywhere in the 1980s and so and duck.

00:03:42.960 --> 00:04:01.050 And all this other stuff, and so there was there was this whole like for me in you know cruise ships try to create a sense of wealth and, for me it was really interesting to be part of this, the first time, and I was just like wow like where is where is all this stuff bid.

00:04:02.700 --> 00:04:06.870 And, but there also got to a point where I was tired of visiting places.

00:04:08.130 --> 00:04:26.400 i'd go into I mean you name it i've been there that's not true, but i've been to like 35 different ports of call but of them like somebody somebody will ask me like have you been to Greece, and I said well i've been there, but I haven't really experienced it I spent a day or two here.

00:04:26.430 --> 00:04:29.340 day or two there and I really wanted to experience something.

00:04:30.030 --> 00:04:39.990 So I I quit the cruise ships which was hard to do because they dangled the world cruise at me like I said i'm quitting and they said well we're going to offer the world cruise which is 90 days not see.

00:04:40.800 --> 00:04:48.360 In 90 days at sea 45 port days I believe so that's pretty cool but there's no kids on the ship and I was like what.

00:04:48.990 --> 00:04:58.140 The ship i'm a youth activities director, I said well you know we'll we'll have you run adult activities and that never really interest me, I mean I was like 20 something and I didn't want to play shuffleboard.

00:04:58.470 --> 00:05:07.050 And I really wanted to live somewhere, so I kind of job in Egypt and I went it was amazing yeah I opened a school there I could open a school with some other people yeah.

00:05:07.710 --> 00:05:11.040
Nathan Hurd: wow wow so how long how long were you there before you came back.

00:05:11.490 --> 00:05:20.130 I was there for one year, while I was there, there was a woman selling books to our school because we were brand new school and she was from Lebanon my family's originally from Lebanon like 100 years ago.

00:05:20.730 --> 00:05:26.370 I said, well, I want to go there, and so I went and visited her I applied I got that job for two years.

00:05:27.510 --> 00:05:41.100 I was, to my knowledge, the only American history teacher on September 11 living in Lebanon, but there may have been one or two others, and that was a little scary but I, and I remember the.

00:05:43.260 --> 00:05:56.280 scary, but I also remember thinking feel safer here than the US, because if you remember in the US, there were some real scary times like we didn't know if there's another thing happening or if they're putting something in subways or didn't envelopes.

00:05:58.080 --> 00:06:05.100 But I remember talking to the ambassador, the US ambassador in Lebanon, I so i've got a bag it's packed underneath my bed.

00:06:06.090 --> 00:06:16.590 When i'm gonna let me know when I should evacuated and she said she just looked me square in the eyes and she said, if I let you know when to evacuate you should have probably already lost like two weeks ago.

00:06:17.760 --> 00:06:18.180
Nathan Hurd: Right.

00:06:18.270 --> 00:06:25.350 Right and I use that story a lot with my clients when we're talking about markets and getting out when things are frothy we can come back to that, but.

00:06:25.590 --> 00:06:34.500 So I left after two years, that was three years in the Middle East, it was a lot for me i'm a pretty empathetic guy and there's a lot of tension over there, particularly the final year.

00:06:35.130 --> 00:06:46.920 I knew I was coming to the region I didn't want to be in a region where there was a war, I was lucky to live in Lebanon of relative peace for two years and, and so I took a job in Brazil and I taught there for.

00:06:48.750 --> 00:06:58.470 Four years I did four years of teaching all history in American schools emphasis on public safety, human rights, economics, but history in general yeah.

00:06:59.640 --> 00:07:07.530
Nathan Hurd: Well that's um yeah that that experience, I can only imagine was was really interesting and now you have gone on to do so many other things.

00:07:08.340 --> 00:07:19.350
Nathan Hurd: I guess maybe for anyone who's unaware of your career your at least your more recent career and your work or how you think about your work, could you just talk a bit about your background and how you think about your work at this point.

00:07:19.860 --> 00:07:30.300 yeah well right now I I run a so we manage let's see let's start over so right now we run in registered investment in ra.

00:07:31.410 --> 00:07:37.110 And so we manage money for clients and we do it under the philosophy of conscious wealth or conscious wealth management.

00:07:37.590 --> 00:07:43.320 And the belief that the way that we manage money, the way that we interact with our clients.

00:07:44.220 --> 00:07:51.510 And with all of our stakeholders can cultivate consciousness can cultivate abundance cultivate purpose.

00:07:52.350 --> 00:08:08.850 help individuals create an impact and unify people transforming money which can be something of fear, or maybe a way to keep score into something that can really create fulfilling lives and and I truly believe that the way we run our business and the way we work with our clients.

00:08:10.110 --> 00:08:11.640 can facilitate them.

00:08:12.900 --> 00:08:24.690
Nathan Hurd: gotcha and I think you touched on on there, but would you just go through what is the definition or how do you define conscious wealth and what are the what are its component parts you mentioned them up.

00:08:24.930 --> 00:08:27.420 Just yeah so I published a book in.

00:08:27.420 --> 00:08:34.410 October, and it was just based on a lot of the experiences I had of working with some very successful clients who navigated this.

00:08:36.180 --> 00:08:45.870 who've navigated the complexities of having financial assets and there are quite a bit of complexities around it, and what I saw in best practices, amongst them was that.

00:08:47.790 --> 00:08:55.350 They had a mindset and conscious wealth is like is a mindset around money that can help cultivate abundance.

00:08:55.800 --> 00:09:05.910 purpose impact in unity, and so I broken into four different levels, but these four levels coexist at all times it's not a stepping stone or ladder one to the other.

00:09:06.720 --> 00:09:17.580 But they're all levels of transformation ways that you can you know if we think about money being energy which it is its basic form it's just a piece of paper, but you got that paper.

00:09:17.580 --> 00:09:23.010 because somebody probably yourself and many other people have put energy forth to have that.

00:09:24.330 --> 00:09:37.770 And so, what do you do with that energy, you know, and one thing you can do is just spend it on lifestyle and the problem, though, is spending it on lifestyle is that it's never enough.

00:09:39.180 --> 00:09:48.060 yeah it's never enough lifestyle it's like the horizon and it just keeps on going and it keeps on going and a lot of people have had that experience in life, saying well when I make.

00:09:48.900 --> 00:09:58.920 This milestone, a year, then i'm going to be happy, and then they grow into that and they say Well now, I want to make this milestone, I want to make this milestone, and it keeps on going further out.

00:09:59.310 --> 00:10:08.790 And sometimes it's on their own and sometimes it's their family has been part of that and so really the whole book was about figuring out how much is enough.

00:10:09.840 --> 00:10:17.520 I really like how much is enough, and how can you come to peace with that answer in if you know how much is enough, then, what do you do with the rest.

00:10:19.560 --> 00:10:27.540 And in society, I think we're talking about two different extreme answers either you hoard it or you give it all away well.

00:10:28.590 --> 00:10:33.480 Those neither of those sound really attractive just stacking a bunch of money in your bank account might make you.

00:10:33.840 --> 00:10:39.390 Make might make you think you're going to feel better but rarely, we find that to be true, and just giving it all away.

00:10:39.870 --> 00:10:52.410 that's a pretty big step, and so what we did, and what I did within this book was talking about all the different things you could do with it create purpose create impact in your lives but, more importantly, the people around you and then create unity.

00:10:53.160 --> 00:11:01.080 In money as a unifying factor is countercultural particularly today, but I do believe that that that is its promise.

00:11:01.440 --> 00:11:08.130
Nathan Hurd: um man I that that resonates a lot with me and my experience as well and.

00:11:08.550 --> 00:11:23.670
Nathan Hurd: Before we go any further into the book i'd love to hear how the book came about, so what like what were some of the beliefs, that you had early in your days as a wealth manager or investment advisor that you that have changed, you know and and.

00:11:24.720 --> 00:11:27.600
Nathan Hurd: And then, it had led you towards the conscious wealth book to begin with.

00:11:28.560 --> 00:11:32.550 yeah man, I mean originally I wanted to write the book.

00:11:36.330 --> 00:11:44.430 I think that you know if the most the most truthful answer is, I originally wrote the book because I thought it would be something really good to get my name out there and bringing clients.

00:11:44.970 --> 00:11:47.700 And because that's what we were trained to do.

00:11:48.300 --> 00:11:54.810 Like if you work in a broker dealer which I started in the broker dealer it was like just bringing clients just bring in clients just bring in clients.

00:11:55.140 --> 00:12:01.530 And so you get that kind of in your mindset, and so I was like well, how could I do that well i'll write a book and that's why I started.

00:12:01.980 --> 00:12:06.450 And when that was the purpose of writing my book, it never got published and then, when it flipped to.

00:12:06.750 --> 00:12:16.920 I have something really important to say throughout this process i've learned a lot and i've learned a lot just through my own transformation and work but, listening to others, particularly my clients, then.

00:12:17.790 --> 00:12:25.770 It got published and like pretty quickly to like a year and a half, it was out the door, we just took all these different parts melded them together and.

00:12:26.790 --> 00:12:27.570 put my current.

00:12:29.490 --> 00:12:36.270 You know my current understanding around life or just bringing my present self to it and it came to life really quickly.

00:12:36.780 --> 00:12:50.610 So that's how it came about and then as soon as it got out in the world, which it is now it's really about the message like, how can I, how can I help as many people see that that life really begins when we stop fearing about money now.

00:12:52.380 --> 00:13:00.840 That could be a really elitist thing to say, and I understand that, because a lot of people really do have fears around money in those fears are real so i'm not trying to say that that's not.

00:13:01.890 --> 00:13:05.250 That that's not a reality for many people in this country.

00:13:06.030 --> 00:13:16.020 But when i'm also saying is there's a tremendous amount of well I don't want to talk about other people talking about myself, there was a lot of time in my life when I feared money when it was no longer necessary.

00:13:16.560 --> 00:13:21.540 And so I wrote that book for myself when I was going through that and anyone else who might be going through that.

00:13:23.430 --> 00:13:35.490
Nathan Hurd: yeah I you know I, I agree with you that it's hard to build on fear and so when you start at that place whatever level.

00:13:35.910 --> 00:13:44.670
Nathan Hurd: I do think you're 100% right it's very hard to build from that place have you what's your experience been let's let's just take anyone listening or watching this.

00:13:45.090 --> 00:14:01.200
Nathan Hurd: Who might have had might currently have an experience with a financial advisor or an investment advisor or might have had experiences with them, I mean the things that you're saying here are not what you typically hear when you go into the office of a wealth manager so.

00:14:01.920 --> 00:14:08.160
Nathan Hurd: What do you think what do you think contributes to that, why is it you know, is in fact the industry.

00:14:09.450 --> 00:14:14.640
Nathan Hurd: Does the industry needs some evolution, or what is it about the industry that reinforces that fear.

00:14:15.720 --> 00:14:16.470
Nathan Hurd: If you think it does.

00:14:16.860 --> 00:14:18.330 yeah no Sir i'm.

00:14:19.020 --> 00:14:23.940 going to go back to your statement, which I thought was really good and it impacted me, which is it's hard to build on fear.

00:14:25.020 --> 00:14:34.530 And when I was going to the industry, when I was going through the training we had you know this this this man had really great charisma and he was always training us on stuff and one of the things he would say is.

00:14:35.220 --> 00:14:43.020 You need to meet someone at a cocktail party and you say what is your what keeps you up at night that was it like that was the one liner like what keeps you up at night.

00:14:43.740 --> 00:14:57.510 And I like that's a terrible way to start a conversation that is in so like Why would I base my business proposition on like i'm going to help you sleep better it's just.

00:14:59.550 --> 00:15:06.030 Like and although I think there's some truth to that like just drumming up the fears and so it is.

00:15:06.720 --> 00:15:16.110 Look, the financial services industry has continued to create more responsibilities to financial advisors wealth managers CFP whatever you call them.

00:15:16.500 --> 00:15:24.840 they've thrown so much on us if you go back to the 1970s, all we did we I wasn't part of the business at that time, but all they did was dropped tickets.

00:15:25.290 --> 00:15:38.490 And you would just you know and that word is still around today yeah I dropped a ticket or something like that we don't like we're everything on discretion, but it was just you just sold stuff in that there was no real information out there, we were the keepers of the keys the.

00:15:40.770 --> 00:15:48.840 Like that what was the ef Hutton expression listen to your listeners are going to kill me for not knowing this when you have hutton's everybody listens that's what it was.

00:15:49.050 --> 00:15:51.930 it's this idea, like we had all this information in slowly we've.

00:15:52.410 --> 00:16:10.350 That information has been completely democratized everybody has it now it's so much that not everybody can digest it but it's out a lot of the information is out there and now we're asked to be estate planners and we're asked to do, I mean pet wills right like.

00:16:11.460 --> 00:16:20.250 A will, for your dog we're looking at five to nine and so all this other stuff got added and it's a lot it's a lot to handle.

00:16:20.640 --> 00:16:30.540 And the one thing that as this information has gotten taken away from us is that the industry is increasingly said, well, the way that we're going to keep them to show that we're smarter than them.

00:16:31.560 --> 00:16:36.000 we're going to and how do you make somebody feel that you're smarter than them well, obviously.

00:16:36.480 --> 00:16:40.530 it's not necessary it's not true, I can't be smarter than ever, I can be more disciplined.

00:16:40.830 --> 00:16:48.000 I can run a better process but trying to prove that I have a better mousetrap is near impossible, and the only way it's possible is if I make people feel that they're afraid.

00:16:48.750 --> 00:16:54.480 And so, if you look at the marketing out there for very large institutions who are hoping to hold on to more clients it's based on fear.

00:16:56.520 --> 00:17:01.710 And I think that's that's that's true now The other option is to say.

00:17:02.520 --> 00:17:14.760 Well, I can't be smarter than anyone, as I said, I can run a better practice I can be more disciplined I can help very complex situations, I can get them information that they don't have, but if I can't be smarter than them then i'm just going to have to care.

00:17:16.080 --> 00:17:25.890 Like really care, but i'm gonna have to love my clients and i'm going to have to show that I love them through my actions and go to war for them in any way that I can go to battle for them let's use the word battle, not war.

00:17:27.960 --> 00:17:28.470 and

00:17:31.740 --> 00:17:35.790 Well, it seems that, I mean for many people just making them afraid would be easier than that.

00:17:36.540 --> 00:17:37.680 yeah yeah.

00:17:37.740 --> 00:17:40.680
Nathan Hurd: yeah I think you know your initial.

00:17:41.790 --> 00:17:54.120
Nathan Hurd: The question of what keeps you up at night, I mean the thing about that question is it presupposes that everything having to do with money is like terrifying and.

00:17:54.330 --> 00:17:57.180
Nathan Hurd: You know that what a what an unfortunate way.

00:17:57.390 --> 00:17:57.630 To.

00:17:58.260 --> 00:18:05.790
Nathan Hurd: You know, to think about the the construct and the relationship with money, because, as you said it isn't it is energy it's a resource that we can.

00:18:05.790 --> 00:18:09.090 get to do what it presupposes that they're up at night.

00:18:10.200 --> 00:18:11.400 never even thought of yeah.

00:18:11.970 --> 00:18:13.770
Nathan Hurd: yeah or that they should be now.

00:18:14.040 --> 00:18:15.420
Nathan Hurd: If they weren't before right.

00:18:15.690 --> 00:18:18.450 Show me my portfolio and i'll tell you why you should be up at night.

00:18:18.540 --> 00:18:22.110
Nathan Hurd: yeah yeah I mean it's it's so true because you know when I think about.

00:18:22.470 --> 00:18:29.010
Nathan Hurd: Like a lot of the retirement conversations that happen behind closed doors it's let's make sure you don't run out.

00:18:29.760 --> 00:18:35.280
Nathan Hurd: Right or that you have to your point you have enough, and the whole conversation is about like.

00:18:36.000 --> 00:18:51.570
Nathan Hurd: You know, making sure that we kind of weasel way enough just to make sure it lasts and yeah um but, but you know what this actually is a makes me think of the first tenant in your book so maybe we could talk about that a little bit I type which I love.

00:18:51.810 --> 00:18:55.080
Nathan Hurd: Thank you, which, which I believe is abundance but.

00:18:55.470 --> 00:18:55.860
Nathan Hurd: yeah could you.

00:18:56.010 --> 00:19:01.110
Nathan Hurd: Could you talk a little bit about the the idea of abundance and.

00:19:02.640 --> 00:19:04.440
Nathan Hurd: And you know I think you really do.

00:19:06.930 --> 00:19:12.150
Nathan Hurd: You really do an incredible job of conveying the point of scarcity.

00:19:12.600 --> 00:19:15.420
Nathan Hurd: So, how did what was your experience.

00:19:15.510 --> 00:19:19.920
Nathan Hurd: With scarcity, or you know how did, how did you think about scarcity and how did it lead you to abundance.

00:19:20.880 --> 00:19:22.200
Nathan Hurd: Sure sure.

00:19:24.330 --> 00:19:27.690 Yes to the first level that we talked about in, and I say these things aren't.

00:19:28.410 --> 00:19:35.820 hierarchy, but this is really the hierarchy part of it you've got to get to this point, if you want to enter into this mindset of conscious wealth.

00:19:36.240 --> 00:19:39.720 And that's that more often than not, you feel like you have enough.

00:19:40.680 --> 00:19:48.150 right because everybody always wants to know like how much is enough do I have enough money and having enough doesn't mean oh now I have enough, I never have to work again I can go.

00:19:49.140 --> 00:19:53.100 buy a sailboat and sail around the world, or something like that some version of that dream.

00:19:53.730 --> 00:20:00.330 What it does mean is right now, I know that I have enough to meet my goals and that I will have enough or I will find a way enough and that I will not.

00:20:01.320 --> 00:20:11.100 Be in destitute right, and this is confidence it's even more than a confidence it's a knowing and we talked about in the book I talk about how you kind of.

00:20:11.490 --> 00:20:21.960 Look how you get there, and one of the ways that you get there is examining your beliefs around money or what we call money memories, many of us have scarce money memories and that would be completely reasonable.

00:20:23.520 --> 00:20:29.970 We were all raised by parents who wanted to create a responsibility within us.

00:20:31.500 --> 00:20:39.360 And I mean, yes, I mean like I remember all the time, like turn off the lights, do you think money grows on trees yeah like.

00:20:39.750 --> 00:20:41.580 And these are these are these are things that.

00:20:42.300 --> 00:20:53.040 You know the parents are doing their best and, but these are things that we might hold on to forever the money memory stories i've heard from people are phenomenal when I asked them i'm going to ask you, do you mind if I ask your question.

00:20:53.100 --> 00:20:56.040 Sure, all right What was your earliest memory about money.

00:21:00.540 --> 00:21:07.110
Nathan Hurd: um I remember that my father used to have a coin set a bunch of coins sets under his bed.

00:21:07.470 --> 00:21:07.800 yeah.

00:21:07.860 --> 00:21:14.040
Nathan Hurd: And so, he was like saving them and they were old like silver pure silver quarters and things like that.

00:21:14.370 --> 00:21:14.640

00:21:16.830 --> 00:21:18.150
Nathan Hurd: I remember that.

00:21:20.520 --> 00:21:26.970
Nathan Hurd: You know, eventually, I remember having to beg a lot and really work towards the point where I could get an allowance with any kind.

00:21:27.270 --> 00:21:31.050
Nathan Hurd: yeah and when I finally did I was, I was really excited.

00:21:32.130 --> 00:21:33.300
Nathan Hurd: yeah and then I do remember.

00:21:34.020 --> 00:21:41.460
Nathan Hurd: Both of my parents, I remember going to different parents, depending on what the circumstances were because they both had.

00:21:42.000 --> 00:21:53.130
Nathan Hurd: Different that I was more likely to get an answer I wanted out of one versus the other depending on the circumstance, because I guess because maybe of their their money beliefs, but.

00:21:53.670 --> 00:22:04.350 Sure sure, and then in the next step, which we won't do on live podcast or discussion, but then, and thanks for sharing that like I put you on the spot, and thanks, and I love that and I would.

00:22:04.830 --> 00:22:12.450 I would love for you to think more about like what does that mean, and how do I either reflect.

00:22:13.410 --> 00:22:28.620 Keeping really valuable things under my bed do I still do that today, or if I move to the other end of the spectrum and fought against what I saw and so that and that's what we do within the book is look I give examples of my money memories, some of the things that I grew up with and.

00:22:29.160 --> 00:22:29.880
Nathan Hurd: What were they.

00:22:29.910 --> 00:22:31.200 Were did yeah.

00:22:31.320 --> 00:22:35.760
Nathan Hurd: You touched on it earlier yeah and but i'd love to hear like what what What was your catalyst.

00:22:36.090 --> 00:22:39.780 So this is controversial within my family.

00:22:41.370 --> 00:22:49.680 For two reasons, one because, as a kid we weren't ever poor We always say we always had a roof over our head.

00:22:49.680 --> 00:22:50.310 But I.

00:22:50.400 --> 00:22:58.980 But what I what I write in the book as I felt poor I felt like we never had enough money, I felt like we were one step away from going.

00:22:59.460 --> 00:23:08.610 bankrupt and I didn't really know what happened after them, but I didn't really like the sound of that so i'm a safer and i'm really intentional about what I buy and i'm to this day, still a minimalist.

00:23:09.750 --> 00:23:15.720 And I I definitely live below the level that I spend less money than I.

00:23:15.720 --> 00:23:18.090 can potentially could yeah.

00:23:18.630 --> 00:23:28.800 But my big thing that broken to abundance was, I mean I so my story with money is I grew up thinking we didn't have any and I wanted a ton of it.

00:23:29.880 --> 00:23:34.800 Then I went to college and I was like i'm going to be an accountant because I i'm going to have a ton of it.

00:23:35.310 --> 00:23:42.510 I hated Business School and I decided, for one reason or for a couple reasons I said all right now i'm going to go, be a teacher.

00:23:42.900 --> 00:23:48.120 not going to have money but i'm going to be a public servant and i'm going to be better than that i'm going to.

00:23:48.360 --> 00:23:58.140 i'm going to live kind of above money i'm going to be, you know, like actually I guess that would be yeah it'd be above it i'm going to be above it i'm going live on a higher standard the money I don't need it i'm going to be this humble teacher.

00:23:59.190 --> 00:24:08.010 And then reality set in, and I was like oh man i'm 33 the age of Christ, and I don't have any money, and I think it's been a great run, but I do want to career.

00:24:08.430 --> 00:24:21.150 And then I decided I didn't have any and I was going to get a ton of it again and, and that was my goal right like I want to make as much as possible, so I went into financial services, I went into one of the really big firms and they love people like me.

00:24:21.810 --> 00:24:25.770 That you know the expression as a PhD I was poor hungry and driven.

00:24:26.070 --> 00:24:31.380 or poor hungry and dumb and I wanted a lot of it so like I was just working hard.

00:24:32.070 --> 00:24:41.640 All the time it was were you know crazy crazy hours you know the 12 sometimes 14 hour days worked on Saturday, sometimes on Sundays not too often and.

00:24:42.720 --> 00:24:55.140 i'm like I made it like in a sense, like if anyone who's been to the broker dealers there's been to financial services it's about a 90 something percent failure rate it's it's not really high.

00:24:55.710 --> 00:25:07.020 And I got through the system, I got the Nice office, which again if you have a door you're a king like that's it I started out on a desk of 12 people.

00:25:07.560 --> 00:25:21.060 And I could, at the end of the day, tell you what all 12 of them spoke about all day because that's the way my brain works which is not something i'm proud of, or happy about, but it was exhausting, so I would come in at five in the morning, so I could get all my work done before they did.

00:25:22.140 --> 00:25:32.970 And so my nickname was they would call me night shift just come in so early and I would blow up all the partners emails just so they knew I was working at five, and I was I like to poke the bear.

00:25:33.930 --> 00:25:49.890 But I got to a point where I made it a sense of I had a door, I had a very sustainable business, I was proud of the way I built it I didn't I didn't I didn't compromise my ethics in any way i've come, but, but what ended up happening was I compromise myself.

00:25:51.210 --> 00:26:05.670 So I had the financial success, I created wealth, but I destroyed something and I really destroyed my sense of joy my sense of happiness in my physical health, I was physically ill, I went to the dentist and they.

00:26:07.050 --> 00:26:13.050 And they said look you're going to need to get a biopsy because we see some irregularities within your mouth and.

00:26:14.880 --> 00:26:16.950 And and.

00:26:18.090 --> 00:26:25.230 They said you're going to have to have somebody take you pick you up and take this wait in the waiting room and drive you home because you're gonna be under anesthesia.

00:26:26.190 --> 00:26:37.680 And you know you would think the average person would say oh man, I might have cancer and my thought was oh man I don't have anyone to take him to the doctor's Office like it's a huge thud.

00:26:38.100 --> 00:26:46.170 yeah I don't have anyone to take me to the doctor's office because i've just spent the last couple years of my life, trying to get a door.

00:26:48.420 --> 00:26:50.910 And and and so.

00:26:51.840 --> 00:26:55.200
Nathan Hurd: at the expense of the relationships that you would have otherwise.

00:26:55.320 --> 00:26:55.980
Nathan Hurd: nurtured.

00:26:56.100 --> 00:26:56.910 Right precisely.

00:26:56.970 --> 00:27:02.130 My girlfriend broke up with me, she said you're never around she was right my family was in a different state.

00:27:02.160 --> 00:27:04.980 And all I did was work, so I mean how many real friends can you have.

00:27:05.160 --> 00:27:08.880 Right, so when I say, well, the creation of wealth, destroy something.

00:27:09.390 --> 00:27:23.130 that's very much what i'm talking about and sometimes can be a controversial negative statement, but nothing is created without something being destroyed and, in my case I destroyed my health and my my social circle and from there went back to the office.

00:27:24.600 --> 00:27:27.030 don't recommend stitches in your mouth it hurts.

00:27:30.000 --> 00:27:44.070 And I had to be you know, and I had to be quiet, I had to be quiet couldn't talk so all I did was sit around the office and listen and, at the time I was like this is like a silent meditation like i'm just walking around the office listening and I really didn't like what I saw.

00:27:44.610 --> 00:27:45.570 When it became pretty.

00:27:45.750 --> 00:28:01.500 abundant to me are pretty clear to abundantly clear to me that I was, I was living in a working in a place that wasn't aligned with my values, and it did not match my previous career, which was working in human rights, public safety, education and I had.

00:28:02.700 --> 00:28:12.630 You know, and so the question is how much is enough and that's a really hard question for most people to answer but what's very easy to tell in a moment, like that was.

00:28:13.170 --> 00:28:23.280 I have too much whatever enough is i've got too much of it i've got too much of that and not enough of the right stuff and that's where I really began to shift and luckily.

00:28:24.420 --> 00:28:42.210 And, ironically, we didn't have so that, luckily I didn't have cancer and, ironically, it was some irregularities in my mouth because of an immune like immuno compromised, which is no surprise, because all I was doing was working like if you're working those kind of our immune system shutdown.

00:28:42.390 --> 00:28:55.980 yeah that's a that's again a really hard lesson to learn and and the pendulum swung too far and that's that was kind of the beginning of my journey to creating something that I find very meaningful now, which is our type of work that we're doing.

00:28:58.020 --> 00:28:59.100
Nathan Hurd: that's amazing yes.

00:28:59.160 --> 00:29:00.480
Nathan Hurd: Thank you so much for sharing that.

00:29:02.010 --> 00:29:06.780
Nathan Hurd: If if someone's listening, right now, and they aren't exactly sure.

00:29:08.400 --> 00:29:13.770
Nathan Hurd: What their relationship with money is at this point like they might have mixed feelings about it.

00:29:15.510 --> 00:29:27.060
Nathan Hurd: I think what i'm hearing you suggest, which i've certainly had this experience myself, is that this scarcity really can drive behaviors like what the story you just described and and it can be.

00:29:27.660 --> 00:29:37.290
Nathan Hurd: compromising for areas that are really important, how would you suggest, someone think about whether or not they have a heightened level of scarcity.

00:29:37.800 --> 00:29:47.040
Nathan Hurd: And like what what what could they do to explore that and then what steps could they start to take what are like the first couple steps they might take to to try to address it.

00:29:47.640 --> 00:29:59.460 yeah yeah, so I think the first thing is looking at your actual money memories and you can write them down and that's what we do in this workshop that I do we write down like five to seven money memories one of mine.

00:30:02.820 --> 00:30:17.340 The one that comes to mind is when the ice cream man came around I went to my dad's ashtray which had coins in it, because he would empty coins out when he came home every day, I would just go ice cream all my siblings were like, how do you always have money, and I was like well you know.

00:30:18.660 --> 00:30:22.110 I don't know I don't think I answered it i'm like i'll have a snow Cone please.

00:30:25.980 --> 00:30:36.510 So you look at these early early money memories and you ask yourself well is on a scale of scarcity abundance scarcity being I have enough, I will have enough.

00:30:37.380 --> 00:30:49.140 Sorry abundance being that scarcity being I don't have enough I won't have enough Where does this memory sit now like this memory, for me, stealing to buy ice cream would be way on the scarcity side of the spectrum.

00:30:49.740 --> 00:30:57.300 And, but then you pull all of yours like as many as you can and think of like oh bubble, and the first time I started investing the first time I got a raise.

00:30:57.570 --> 00:31:05.580 And when you look at all of these different types of memories you look at like like where do I sit on the scale of this thing like I think that's, the first thing I would do.

00:31:07.470 --> 00:31:13.140 And then I look at like the most scarce moment I have in the most abundant moment I have like individually.

00:31:14.910 --> 00:31:24.360 And I like I kind of put myself in that place and I try to keep modern day stuff I don't want to go back to when I was six years old or eight years old, but I look like a modern day moment where I have.

00:31:24.780 --> 00:31:33.720 A level of scarcity and i'll put myself in that place i'm like what do I feel like not like I and there's an there's an expression Oh, I feel like.

00:31:35.430 --> 00:31:45.810 feel I feel like I won't have enough anytime you say I feel like it's not really how you feel you're right in your mind so it's like what do I feel, and when I feel scarcity.

00:31:46.290 --> 00:31:51.120 I have a burning sensation in my stomach that's me everyone's going to have it's going to show up somewhere differently.

00:31:51.540 --> 00:31:59.490 If I really feel scarcity, and if you work in these markets, you will feel this you might get lightheaded you know and that's.

00:32:00.390 --> 00:32:10.140 I won't go on a tangent but i'll come back to that tangent and then so you look at what do I actually feel like feel and then you take an abundant moment.

00:32:10.890 --> 00:32:17.580 Maybe it's somebody graduating you know, or you graduating are you getting your promotion like what did I feel like.

00:32:18.330 --> 00:32:28.620 And now that you've attached some type of meaning to that feeling of abundance and scarcity, you can check in with yourself on a day to day basis and be like where, am I, on the scale.

00:32:29.790 --> 00:32:32.820 And I want to mention that scarcity, is not a bad thing.

00:32:34.680 --> 00:32:37.320 it's everything has been created from scarcity.

00:32:38.760 --> 00:32:43.650 Right, if you have a complete set of abundance your whole life, you might not create that much.

00:32:44.250 --> 00:32:52.800 And you probably won't create as much as if there was some scarcity scarcity, is the fire to this and fire is needed, but the problem is.

00:32:53.310 --> 00:33:03.270 The fire isn't always needed and there's sometimes in your life, where you have too much scarcity, so I don't want people I get a lot of times in my workshop saying well should I just always be abundant see no not necessarily.

00:33:04.050 --> 00:33:14.280 And you like i'll ask them if they have kids do you want your kids to always feel abundant Now I want some fire in their belly okay so How does that work so getting that that that two of them.

00:33:15.330 --> 00:33:18.810 Getting that balance and knowing how you feel those are really important.

00:33:19.770 --> 00:33:28.890
Nathan Hurd: um man I love that you are describing attaching a feeling to that concept, because that's I mean the truth of it is like.

00:33:29.340 --> 00:33:38.220
Nathan Hurd: You know how many people out there in the world, right now, are watching what's happening with the economy and the news about the economy and the numbers about the economy and.

00:33:38.610 --> 00:33:49.650
Nathan Hurd: they're dealing with those feelings, one way or the other but perhaps a little more attention to what the feelings are and what you know what reactions, there are associated with whether they are.

00:33:50.100 --> 00:34:00.870
Nathan Hurd: tied to scarcity and what decisions they might be attempting to make from from either of those positions is like hugely important, especially in a moment, like this, but always you know.

00:34:01.260 --> 00:34:09.840 yeah yeah and that was the tangent I was just about to go on so i'll come back to that which is as financial advisors and I know a lot of advisors and investment advisors, listen to the show.

00:34:10.410 --> 00:34:19.290 Is that you're not doing your job if you're not scared once in a while you don't like you like if you're not making decisions that sometimes make you want to.

00:34:19.950 --> 00:34:25.950 puke underneath your desk and you might not be doing your job, you might not be following the process and the rules that you set out.

00:34:26.490 --> 00:34:36.870 And that is the challenging part of our job is knowing that I have these types of feelings, I had these types of fears and I still have to work with them and.

00:34:37.680 --> 00:34:50.280 work with our clients who are having those same fears and not always represent those or bring that to them and have an abundant mindset and the balance between the emotional intelligence needed to work with clients and.

00:34:51.000 --> 00:35:01.770 Setting aside the emotions, while you're managing money is really I think what makes this job difficult, you know or challenging and it's also what we're we are rewarded for.

00:35:02.790 --> 00:35:11.910
Nathan Hurd: So for anyone that's listening to this and you're right, I think a lot of people are potentially involved in the finance world, but at least are aspiring to live.

00:35:12.540 --> 00:35:13.770
Nathan Hurd: yeah my life.

00:35:14.160 --> 00:35:21.540
Nathan Hurd: Would you suggest that there's like on the scale of scarcity on one side abundance, on the other, is there kind of a position.

00:35:22.080 --> 00:35:34.500
Nathan Hurd: That is optimal for approaching, you know, wealth creation and investment decision making that leans one way or the other, I mean do you have do you feel like there's an optimal place.

00:35:36.570 --> 00:35:39.090 The goal and.

00:35:40.650 --> 00:35:49.560 Thanks to a lot of my mentors for teaching me this The goal is to have range The goal is to be able to bring in scarcity, when you need it and bring it abundance when you need it.

00:35:49.890 --> 00:36:02.640 Just like I was saying, when we're in my day to day work knowing when I need to have an abundant mindset and when I need to have a scarcity and me moment and that's going to change from moment to moment day to day and face to face in my life.

00:36:04.380 --> 00:36:18.540 I needed a scarcity mindset when I started in this business because, as I said, it's a somewhere less than 10% success ratio, but I held on to that for too long, and so the goal is to have enough range know when to call in the cavalry for each side.

00:36:19.620 --> 00:36:26.970 and know what you're into find more awareness around what you're experiencing with scarcity abundance that help.

00:36:27.360 --> 00:36:27.870
Nathan Hurd: It does.

00:36:27.930 --> 00:36:33.690
Nathan Hurd: yeah it does it definitely does well so let's go back to that the question you posed earlier, which is.

00:36:34.020 --> 00:36:48.600
Nathan Hurd: If if we can identify the the money memories and get a better sense of whether we are generally leaning scarce or abundant yeah as our core position you mentioned do I have enough or how much is enough.

00:36:48.930 --> 00:36:51.330
Nathan Hurd: How did what was your personal experience.

00:36:51.390 --> 00:36:56.820
Nathan Hurd: With that journey, how did you go through that that questioning process and and what was your discovery like.

00:36:58.290 --> 00:36:59.580 me, I still go through it.

00:36:59.760 --> 00:37:01.740 I do like i'm it's constant.

00:37:04.740 --> 00:37:07.410 Its constant, especially if you're living in Miami beach.

00:37:10.500 --> 00:37:10.830
Nathan Hurd: Right.

00:37:10.890 --> 00:37:24.720 outside my window are yachts that cost more than any House I potentially will ever be able to afford you know now maybe something will happen that somehow land that lifestyle, but I don't know like so there's there's.

00:37:25.410 --> 00:37:42.840 there's oftentimes moments, or even just like Oh, maybe, maybe I would like to have this type of house or this type of that and so it's it's constant its constant, but the where I can get more in that abundance space there's one component that's financial.

00:37:43.860 --> 00:37:48.900 And I think if you're working with an advisor you should ask your advisor what that number is.

00:37:50.220 --> 00:37:54.000 And and that's great like everyone should do it, but.

00:37:55.860 --> 00:38:03.750 That doesn't make people stop worrying, the other is yeah but it's it's important number to have so we look at that number, how much you actually have plus.

00:38:04.860 --> 00:38:21.390 How much you spend we look at kind of like how much you actually need how much of that spending, could you cut down in a moment's notice it's kind of important we look at that and we look at our memories like these money memories and then we we divide it by.

00:38:22.740 --> 00:38:33.420 Our expectations, so I mentioned before, that I didn't ever expect to have financial assets, I always want to know, but I never expected him so every once in a while and i'm sick I hang out with my friends from Cleveland and.

00:38:35.370 --> 00:38:41.760 You know, we go to a nice steak house and we have a great meal and we just looked at each other and you never think we'd be able to do this when we were kids no.

00:38:42.270 --> 00:38:51.000 I never thought you know so just practicing gratitude like wow like look where i'm at and I try to do that, every day, and so.

00:38:52.050 --> 00:39:01.620 You know the hard thing about answering the question how much is enough because everybody wants to know that the question is like you really need to know how long you're going to live, and you know.

00:39:02.430 --> 00:39:04.980 You really don't Of course you don't know and so.

00:39:06.420 --> 00:39:22.740 If I it's one of those things of learning to live with the discomfort of not knowing and being grateful for what you have and just trusting in your grit or you're you're trusting him you're trusting in your resilience, I would say yeah that.

00:39:23.790 --> 00:39:29.520 i'm if I lost everything I still be okay right finding safety within.

00:39:30.330 --> 00:39:44.640 As opposed to without and that's easy to say like oh i'm going to find safety within because I have all this money to protect me but it's also good to practice that there's many opportunities to practice safety from within and not from external forces.

00:39:46.290 --> 00:40:01.140
Nathan Hurd: Interesting that's yeah you know you I know this there's a big section in the book about this so for for anyone listening or watching that it's it's a there's a lot of good content there that can help walk you through this, but I think I heard you mentioned an equation.

00:40:01.590 --> 00:40:03.060
Nathan Hurd: yeah what is the equation.

00:40:03.750 --> 00:40:03.930

00:40:05.370 --> 00:40:05.820 man.

00:40:06.000 --> 00:40:07.440
Nathan Hurd: All right, I think you said it, it was.

00:40:09.000 --> 00:40:09.600 All on.

00:40:12.120 --> 00:40:13.770 We can put a pause in the video I was just.

00:40:13.890 --> 00:40:15.090 sitting here somewhere I should.

00:40:16.200 --> 00:40:16.500
Nathan Hurd: Okay.

00:40:18.030 --> 00:40:27.210 So the equation I call it the enough equation, which is enough equals my current financial assets and their growth, which is what any financial advisor can tell you.

00:40:28.530 --> 00:40:31.560 minus how much I spend and will spend.

00:40:33.630 --> 00:40:39.060 And plus my confidence to face adversity, in the future, divided by my money memory.

00:40:39.930 --> 00:40:41.370
Nathan Hurd: divided by my money memories.

00:40:41.700 --> 00:40:51.810 yep yeah in all of those together it's not a number, but it is a knowing, and if you go through all of that, I do believe you'll be on a higher ground than a simple financial plan.

00:40:52.110 --> 00:40:57.630 And you'll be in a higher ground than a gut do, then a gut feeling, you know it'll be it'll be a combination of both.

00:40:58.530 --> 00:41:06.150
Nathan Hurd: And do you find when people go through this process that the payoff what is the payoff it sounds like there's a kind of a psychological payoff but.

00:41:07.200 --> 00:41:11.910
Nathan Hurd: what's um what's the main benefit would you say that that comes from going through this exercise.

00:41:13.140 --> 00:41:15.990 here's the crazy thing about getting to a point where you have enough.

00:41:17.010 --> 00:41:18.420 Is I really think.

00:41:19.440 --> 00:41:24.750 it's not like you don't make money anymore, and in fact I think the way you make money there's a there's a.

00:41:26.670 --> 00:41:27.540 you're going to make more.

00:41:29.280 --> 00:41:36.720 Which only works if you do it it's a weird it's a weird twist how do I explain this like it's like.

00:41:37.590 --> 00:41:42.360 If you get to a point where you don't feel like you need more money, you will attract people who want to work with you.

00:41:42.870 --> 00:42:00.030 And there's no real way to explain it and you can't you can only get there by doing it for good intentions, not for to it, because you can't get there by meaning to make more money that makes sense, so one of the big payoff is, you will have by embracing abundance, you will have more abundance.

00:42:00.450 --> 00:42:02.790 hmm that's probably the best way to say.

00:42:02.910 --> 00:42:12.420
Nathan Hurd: yeah yeah and you know I mean even yeah that that that definitely resonates and also, I think about investors that make decisions from fear.

00:42:12.960 --> 00:42:24.210
Nathan Hurd: And those decisions are usually sub optimal are oftentimes suboptimal at the at the very least, and so I do think that you know.

00:42:24.990 --> 00:42:36.840
Nathan Hurd: Many great investors have an optimism that the markets are going to continue over long term to go up and those sorts of things and they're looking for businesses and sectors and innovations and those kinds of things that.

00:42:37.350 --> 00:42:42.630
Nathan Hurd: That are opportunities, rather than just trying to kind of hoard and protect all the time.

00:42:43.410 --> 00:42:49.320 Yes, yes, and if you're looking at the markets to make money.

00:42:50.760 --> 00:42:59.460 it's a lot of pressure on something that's completely out of control, where if you're looking at the markets to preserve and grow at a reasonable rate takes a lot of pressure off.

00:42:59.880 --> 00:43:16.470 And it gives you a lot more opportunity and space within to go out there and make it right and because I I I truly believe that when I work with someone they're better at making it than I am they've got the ideas they've got the business skills, whatever it is.

00:43:18.510 --> 00:43:22.080 And I just can't imagine counting on the markets.

00:43:23.670 --> 00:43:24.180 To.

00:43:27.000 --> 00:43:29.760 To be my source of income my whole life.

00:43:30.870 --> 00:43:34.830 it's a tough gig it's something completely out of control and it's, not even a value add.

00:43:36.090 --> 00:43:36.390
Nathan Hurd: Right.

00:43:36.450 --> 00:43:38.730
Nathan Hurd: Like a flexible like yeah like full time trading.

00:43:39.120 --> 00:43:40.560 versus value add yeah.

00:43:41.370 --> 00:43:53.400 there's no value add there's nobody in society is benefiting from from you doing that and so that's, not to say it's a bad thing to do, but it is like it's hard to say well i'm always going to be needed, you might not.

00:43:53.670 --> 00:43:57.210
Nathan Hurd: yeah as your sole source of income, your entire life.

00:43:57.240 --> 00:44:00.060
Nathan Hurd: yeah that's a that's a lot that's a lot of pressure.

00:44:00.450 --> 00:44:15.570
Nathan Hurd: yeah um I recall when when I was reading I think it was even in the very early part of the book, you made a distinction which i'd love to ask you about at this at this point, which was the difference between finance and investing.

00:44:16.080 --> 00:44:28.980
Nathan Hurd: mm hmm could you uh you know these terms get thrown around and oftentimes I think conflated and but I thought I really appreciated the way you, you talked about them, could you describe how you think about the difference.

00:44:29.730 --> 00:44:31.080 Sure yeah I mean so.

00:44:32.340 --> 00:44:35.340 I like finance to me like every field.

00:44:36.660 --> 00:44:48.960 is to really make the world better right is to create liquidity, so that we can build things that we need or to start businesses that we need is to facilitate the construction of business, which should be.

00:44:50.280 --> 00:44:54.450 As I said just recently just a second ago is value add creating value for other people.

00:44:55.470 --> 00:44:58.500 that's a really important distinction.

00:44:59.850 --> 00:45:14.190 and investing, on the other hand, I, the purpose of investing is really is really to make money that's it and I tell the story, if you get I would love i'm honored that you read it, and the first the first.

00:45:15.570 --> 00:45:19.050 In the introduction, we talked about talking to students about that and that's kind of.

00:45:20.610 --> 00:45:25.230 Like, how do you make the connection between the two is.

00:45:27.450 --> 00:45:33.480 You know, you know, and you said I think i'm can we can I can I can I pivot on this for a second.

00:45:34.110 --> 00:45:35.520
Nathan Hurd: yeah i'm.

00:45:37.470 --> 00:45:45.720 Because i'm just having trouble i'm struggling with this and my mice on the right place, can we jump to a question of the difference between enhancement enrichment and will bring us right into a.

00:45:47.040 --> 00:45:47.370 purpose.

00:45:47.760 --> 00:45:52.830 Absolutely let's do that yeah cuz I feel like i'm going backwards and i'm a little i'm just yeah.

00:45:53.040 --> 00:46:03.900
Nathan Hurd: let's do it, so there was another distinction that you made in the book that I really appreciated and I hadn't really thought about the difference here.

00:46:04.290 --> 00:46:17.970
Nathan Hurd: Before before reading what you wrote about it, which is the difference between enhancement and enrichment and could you just describe how you think about those those two concepts and their differences.

00:46:18.600 --> 00:46:20.790 yeah yeah absolutely um.

00:46:21.660 --> 00:46:30.750 So that and that's part of the second level of conscious about that we talked about which is purpose and we try to you know purpose is such a big word.

00:46:31.260 --> 00:46:46.680 And everybody's really wrapped up about purpose i'm sure if you walk down, I was telling the story about the Miami beach if you walk down Miami beach at sunrise you could a lot of people are just seeking their purpose, all the time, and some of them will tell you all about it on insta.

00:46:47.850 --> 00:46:53.670 But it's this this word that's like really elusive for people and some people are like even like it like.

00:46:55.050 --> 00:47:07.470 nervous about not having a purpose or I need to find this purpose and it's like this, like existential car keys that you've lost and it's really confusing for people, and so in the book we boil it down I boil it down very simply to.

00:47:08.670 --> 00:47:18.630 purpose is is the sense of feeling alive the they are using Thomas Merton quote the tree gives glory to God by being a tree.

00:47:19.890 --> 00:47:32.880 And the repeat that the tree gives glory to God by being a tree, which is this idea that my purpose in life is not to be anyone else, or to do anything we're human beings are not human doings and i'm just supposed to be me.

00:47:33.420 --> 00:47:39.750 And that how I can, what I do in life, to bring out the highest form of who I am the highest expression of who I am.

00:47:40.440 --> 00:47:47.790 And that's my purpose it doesn't have to be to build like an investment firm it to write a book or any of that it's just to be myself.

00:47:48.270 --> 00:47:58.260 And then, if that's the case if you accept that to be as purpose, it takes a lot of pressure off and then you can start looking at your spending say when I spend money.

00:47:59.490 --> 00:48:18.120 Does that help me, be a better brand you know, am I, giving glory to God by being a better tree or however you want to define that and and it's sometimes it's a black and white answer so i'm sure we could think of example I can think let's think of some things I spend money on I sale.

00:48:19.980 --> 00:48:28.170 And I have a boat here in Miami a really small fun boat I say a lot of the US sailing club, which is a really cool place and.

00:48:29.850 --> 00:48:35.340 it's you know it's still a little scary for me out there because i've only been out there, like two or three times.

00:48:36.930 --> 00:48:46.590 there's big yachts that don't see my 14 foot boat and I got to get out of their way and they've got waves that could you know crush me and then there's currents, but when i'm out there, I feel a lie.

00:48:47.040 --> 00:48:55.590 I don't have my phone on me I don't think about work, I am just out there sailing and it is amazing and and then afterwards.

00:48:56.880 --> 00:48:58.800 Sometimes there's some guys around and we'll just be.

00:49:01.500 --> 00:49:18.420 Talking or making jokes and I starting to create a Community starting to get on other people's boats, so that to me is money that's bringing out my truest sense, and so I spoke of my truest essence and I spoke of earlier how wealth.

00:49:19.470 --> 00:49:21.570 Creation can destroy something.

00:49:21.690 --> 00:49:27.270 Right and what's Nice is that about that situation is, you can rebuild that something.

00:49:28.440 --> 00:49:39.660 And you can you have the assets to do that, you can use money in my case, to buy a boat so fun boat that and pay first slip fee my slip fee here's.

00:49:40.320 --> 00:49:46.440 super affordable, but it's still a fee because I just have anyways but using that money to.

00:49:47.250 --> 00:49:55.140 Using that money to reconnect with myself reconnect with my purpose is an example of transforming money into purpose.

00:49:55.410 --> 00:50:01.890 So, like it seems kind of esoteric like transforming money like what does that, how do you transform energy i'm using money that was spent it was.

00:50:02.490 --> 00:50:14.460 earned to reconnect with myself, and when I go to the office, the next day i'm a nicer person when I go home i'm a nicer person i'm more kind generous and loving and so that's an example of an enrichment.

00:50:15.360 --> 00:50:16.380
Nathan Hurd: And Richmond okay.

00:50:17.460 --> 00:50:20.160 I could also and have done this.

00:50:21.780 --> 00:50:38.430 can go to a Michelin star restaurant I think there's like a good deal of them here and the meal is going to cost me for for me just me on my side of the table anywhere from like 400 to $600 to eat there and i'm going to be sitting down.

00:50:40.650 --> 00:50:48.720 And hearing about how the smoke was made from leaves from the shuts back yard to me to remind me of autumn.

00:50:50.040 --> 00:50:58.350 And I respect all that, but that is not an, that is, that is an enhancement from the it's kind of cool makes my life, a little bit easier.

00:50:58.620 --> 00:51:05.790 But it does not make me feel more alive sitting down for four hours and going through a 12 course meal is not generally rich me.

00:51:06.570 --> 00:51:18.180 So figuring out maybe it maybe it does, maybe you're a foodie like, but the point is to look at how you're spending money in way, did you spend it is a form of transformation you're taking it into an experience.

00:51:18.570 --> 00:51:23.490 And so, how are you transforming it and how is it bringing out your truest sense or your purpose.

00:51:24.330 --> 00:51:34.740
Nathan Hurd: I love it yeah so so all under the context of purpose and you when I when you were talking, I was thinking about all the things that I might spend money on and where they would fall.

00:51:35.100 --> 00:51:46.320
Nathan Hurd: Under enhancement or enrichment and that's a yeah that is such a great way to think about the value of purchase or an investment of resources that you're about to make I love that.

00:51:47.970 --> 00:51:55.560
Nathan Hurd: Well, so we I know we're we have a couple more minutes here so so we've talked about abundance we've talked about purpose.

00:51:55.980 --> 00:52:03.030
Nathan Hurd: And by the way, there's a ton in those two sections that we have not covered that's in the book that's really amazing.

00:52:04.140 --> 00:52:13.050
Nathan Hurd: But the other two sections, could you just touch on what those up the other two sections are and and give kind of an overarching framework.

00:52:13.410 --> 00:52:16.530 yeah sure, so the first two sections, the first two levels.

00:52:17.790 --> 00:52:20.730 Are punctuated by questions you know I have enough.

00:52:21.780 --> 00:52:27.810 And purpose is I am enough i'm enough of a person I can spend on myself it's okay to give to myself.

00:52:28.920 --> 00:52:42.330 But when you get beyond that into the higher levels of conscious wealth which are impacting unity you start to really call into question, so there no they're no longer statements their questions, so instead of I have enough is.

00:52:43.290 --> 00:52:47.760 Do I have anything at all right, like we know we can't take money with us.

00:52:48.420 --> 00:52:57.360 And so, if we can take it with us, is it really ours in our lifetime, or are we merely custodians and if i'm a custodian what is my responsibility and how am I.

00:52:57.810 --> 00:53:04.140 How am I to use this to impact the lives of other people so that they can cultivate abundance and purpose.

00:53:04.830 --> 00:53:19.800 And so that that would be Level three and again, these are all simultaneously happening and level four is not I am enough, but am I am I at all, am I, separate from anyone else can I be successful if other people aren't successful can I can I.

00:53:21.330 --> 00:53:24.990 If i'm going in these can come into questions around inheritance to like.

00:53:26.580 --> 00:53:34.020 What do I do with my money, how much is enough for my kids and if I am no separate than other human beings, then.

00:53:34.830 --> 00:53:48.210 It doesn't make sense for me to give my entire inheritance to my kids or, should I give them to other people's kids, in other words strangers or nonprofits and so how can I use this so in actually.

00:53:50.010 --> 00:54:04.410 Actually practicing that of like it's hard to like, if you look at the esoteric like if you just think esoteric like yeah we're all connected okay great what do I do with that, like how what does that mean, how do I create unity well like I don't know it's hard to.

00:54:05.700 --> 00:54:11.850 You know, ask a guru but if it's me, I would say, go ahead and give start giving money away.

00:54:12.630 --> 00:54:18.750 Like not just giving it on the street, although you can, but like taking money and and coming up with a charitable plan.

00:54:19.200 --> 00:54:26.820 and supporting other people because there's one side of the spectrum that says this world is tough, I want to make sure everything's good for my kids and the other is saying.

00:54:27.060 --> 00:54:39.990 hey this world is tough and I want to make sure the world is better for my kids and during your lifetime supporting both of those people, you know and don't know and just the act of doing that will unite other people.

00:54:41.910 --> 00:54:51.120
Nathan Hurd: Man when I read the section of the book it really struck me for a few reasons number one you know it seems to me like you know I have five kids have young kids and.

00:54:51.720 --> 00:55:01.380
Nathan Hurd: If I am going to squirrel away everything I have and then give it to them at some level it is kind of a scarcity mentality around like it has to stay in my family and I.

00:55:01.740 --> 00:55:07.320
Nathan Hurd: You know, I have to make sure they're Okay, is that they can't you know function on their own and create on their own.

00:55:08.730 --> 00:55:25.470
Nathan Hurd: But also, I think you're really onto something there because when i've given away money to specific charities that I appreciate during hard years and it almost feels better and more right.

00:55:25.980 --> 00:55:27.720
Nathan Hurd: When it's harder to do.

00:55:28.080 --> 00:55:40.170
Nathan Hurd: yeah and i've also started recently to think about you know what are the What are the causes that i'm giving to and are they the most impactful when you actually break it down like.

00:55:40.770 --> 00:55:48.600
Nathan Hurd: You know, is giving to the Red Cross, making the same impact as it is to another charity that functions a different way or that serves a different purpose and.

00:55:49.860 --> 00:56:00.510
Nathan Hurd: These are really wonderful and profound questions to be asking, so I am I really appreciate that you that you emphasize that, in the in the book.

00:56:01.020 --> 00:56:01.440 yeah.

00:56:01.470 --> 00:56:03.390 Thanks for thanks for sharing your experience too.

00:56:05.250 --> 00:56:07.890 yeah I think 2020 giving during 2020 was.

00:56:09.030 --> 00:56:17.340 so necessary and and, for me it was like well and we didn't know how 2020 was going to end up please your show like how we're going to finish the year.

00:56:17.820 --> 00:56:29.940 But I just knew, even though everything's down and things are crazy, I have a house and I can still work from home right, and so I felt like this was this was the time I needed to give to a food insecurity.

00:56:31.110 --> 00:56:31.860 and

00:56:33.660 --> 00:56:37.470 And then deciding yeah all these questions that we work with our clients on so how much.

00:56:37.980 --> 00:56:48.180 And and and allow them as families to have discussions around it like what is our strategy we're going to give a big organization smaller organizations, how is it aligned to our values and kind of tracking that, in the same way.

00:56:49.170 --> 00:56:54.750 They you know tracking that, in the same way that our investments are this could be really valuable for our family.

00:56:55.650 --> 00:56:56.010
Nathan Hurd: Totally.

00:56:56.070 --> 00:56:57.180
Nathan Hurd: For sure totally.

00:56:57.630 --> 00:57:00.060
Nathan Hurd: Totally and you know and giving when times are tough it.

00:57:00.240 --> 00:57:05.160
Nathan Hurd: It is a really strong and powerful reminder that there is enough.

00:57:05.430 --> 00:57:06.000
Nathan Hurd: To do that.

00:57:06.090 --> 00:57:08.280
Nathan Hurd: And that there's someone else that needs it more than I do.

00:57:08.460 --> 00:57:10.410 You know, absolutely absolutely.

00:57:11.310 --> 00:57:12.240 yeah abundance.

00:57:13.350 --> 00:57:16.380 attracts abundance absolutely and begets abundance absolutely.

00:57:17.310 --> 00:57:22.980
Nathan Hurd: Well brandon this I could I could ask you questions about your thinking and this content.

00:57:22.980 --> 00:57:37.590
Nathan Hurd: For hours, but this has really been really been wonderful I really appreciate your time Thank you so much for for joining about you know joining me here on the conversation where can people that are listening find out more about you and the book and and follow your work or.

00:57:37.770 --> 00:57:38.760
Nathan Hurd: or learn more about what you do.

00:57:39.120 --> 00:57:51.600 yeah sure, so my websites brandon Hatton hh T T O and then our that's what the book and a lot of the tools that we have in the book and then our business site is Hatton investments COM.

00:57:52.320 --> 00:58:02.850 So yeah Those are our two sites and if if any of your listeners read the book and how many questions or thoughts or share i'd love to hear from them, the emails or whatever would be welcome yeah.

00:58:03.030 --> 00:58:07.380
Nathan Hurd: perfect and are you on are you a social media user or have you.

00:58:07.860 --> 00:58:09.600 it's common man it's common it's not.

00:58:12.090 --> 00:58:16.500 it's a it's a lot to juggle and so i've been focusing on just social life.

00:58:16.590 --> 00:58:21.570 and media coming soon, but that's out there, a little bit what will build that out over time i'll be found.

00:58:22.050 --> 00:58:26.130
Nathan Hurd: i'm sure you're much better off for it with social life versus social media but.

00:58:27.510 --> 00:58:38.490
Nathan Hurd: Alright, well, thank you so much it's been a true pleasure and and if anybody has interest i'm will link to everything you just described in the show notes and yeah thanks again.

00:58:38.820 --> 00:58:39.690 awesome thanks.