For the last 40 years, Lynne Twist has been been a recognized global visionary. She has dedicated her life to global initiatives that serve the best instincts in all of us.
We all seek out meaning in our lives and Lynne has a special way of calling us to a life filled with meaning. What she calls "A committed life".
From working with Mother Teresa in Calcutta to the refugee camps in Ethiopia and the threatened rainforests of the Amazon, as well as guiding the philanthropy of some of the worlds wealthiest families, Lynne’s on-the-ground work has brought her a deep understanding of people’s relationship with money. Her life experiences inspired Lynne to write her best-selling, award-winning book “The Soul of Money: Transforming Your Relationship with Money and Life” (W.W. Norton, 2003) which has been translated into nine languages including Korean, Chinese, Vietnamese, French, Spanish, German, Japanese, Bulgarian and Portuguese.
Lynne has co-presented on stage with some of today’s most influential thought leaders, including Oprah Winfrey, Steven Covey, Marianne Williamson, His Holiness the Dalai Lama, Jane Goodall, Van Jones, and Archbishop Desmond Tutu.
As a result of her work, she's been featured in 10 films, received an Honorary Doctorate of Humane Letters from Centenary College and dozens of awards.
On a personal note, her first book is one of my all-time favorites. This conversation was inspiring and energizing.
To your richest possible Life,
Nathan (The Rich Life Guy) Hurd
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Nathan a.k.a. The Rich Life Guy
Lynne Twist's Book: Living a Committed Life
Lynne Twist's Book: The Soul of Money
Soul of Money Institute
Book: A Fuller View
The Oxford Club
Nathan Hurd: [00:00:00] All right. Welcome back to the podcast. This week I have an amazing, amazing, amazing guest. Her name is Lynn Twist, and she has lived just an unbelievably rich life, , in every sense of the word. She is known as a global visionary. And has been for the last 40 years. , she's also a fundraiser speaker, consultant, author, but she's really dedicated her entire life to global initiatives that serve the best instincts in all of us.
She wrote a book, which is one of my all time favorite books called The Soul of Money, Transforming Your Relationship With Money In Life. This book, I mean, I've worked in finance for many years and this book really struck me deep because, you know, she's had the opportunity to work with some of the poorest populations in the world and some of the.
Most affluent and wealthiest, you know, philanthropists and celebrities and so forth, and her perspective about the [00:01:00] role that money plays in our society and culture and world is just unlike no other. , she is also the founder of the Soul of Money Institute, and she is the co-founder of the Pacha Mama Alliance, which her and her husband founded, , or co-founded, which empowers indigenous people of the Amazon Rainforest to preserve their own lands and culture.
, she has won so many awards. She's given Ted Talks. , you know, she's, her work has brought her in proximity with some of the most amazing visionaries of our time. She spent time with Mother Teresa, worked with the Dai Lama, Archbishop, Desmond Tutu. , Stephen Covey so many more. So I think you'll see that there in at, at parts of this conversation.
I mean, I was literally vibrating. She has just this unbelievable energy and way of reaching out and touching the hearts of the people that she connects with. And,[00:02:00] , her new book, she's just released a brand new book called Living a Committed Life, Finding Freedom and Fulfillment in a Purpose Larger Than Yourself.
And she is just a pure example of what it looks to live a long, healthy, beautiful, rich life, exactly in this light. And she shares what it means, how to do it, , and what's possible. You know, she's just, I've never met anyone who can call forth a deeper sense of meaning in all of us. So without further ado, , please enjoy the amazing Lynn
Lynne Twist: Twist.
Nathan Hurd: All right, Lynn Twist, I am just so incredibly grateful to be here with you. Thanks for
Lynne Twist: coming. Thank you for inviting me. I'm grateful to be with you . [00:03:00]
Nathan Hurd: So I have to admit, I am a, , your first book. The Soul of Money is one of, if not my favorite book of all time, truly. And.
Lynne Twist: I love hearing that. I love it. I love it.
Nathan Hurd: it really touched me when I first read it, and so when I heard that you were writing another book, I was, I was so excited, and I, when I picked this book up, you, you just have a way of grabbing me as a reader by the heart, and I think, I think the people that enjoy your books by the heart and just speaking to the heart and to, to the soul and I, I just, um, I thought this book was wonderful, so I'm so excited to talk to you about it and about, and about everything else that you're, you're up to.
You start actually very early in the book. You have a quote, you quote, uh, George Bernard Shaw. And I'd love to just, if it's okay, I'd love to just read this quote and hear from you, like, what does it mean to you and, and why did you include [00:04:00] it so early?
Because the themes from this quote, I kept on hearing echoes of it throughout the, you know, the, the chapters afterwards. Um, so the quote is, this is the true joy in life, The being used for a purpose recognized by yourself as a mighty one, the being a force of nature instead of a feverish, selfish little clo of ailments and grievances, complaining that the world will not devote itself to making you happy.
I'm of the opinion that my life belongs to the whole community, and as long as I live, it is my privilege to do for it. Whatever I. I wanna be thoroughly used up when I die. For the harder I work, the more I live. I rejoice in life for its own sake. Life is no brief candle to me. It's a sort of splendid torch, which I've gotta hold of for the moment.
And I wanna make it burn as brightly as possible before handing it on to future generations. So where, what is the, what does the quote mean to you? Why did you include it here? [00:05:00] And you know, can you just talk a little bit about it?
Yes. Thank you for asking that. No one's asked me that, so I love that question.
Um, well that's a, a beautiful part of my journey was I took the EST training, um, in 1974 and EST is a, is a program that became the Landmark Education Corporation Forum, which is also available now. And EST was founded by a man named Warner Earhart. And at the time, in 1971, when he founded it, he and the program was very, very controversial cuz it was a, a somewhat jolting and harsh program to wake people up out of the trance of consumerism and of malaise and just kind of the sort of me decade of people kind of trying to.
Work on themselves for the sake of their own happiness. Which is not a bad [00:06:00] thing exactly, but it had gotten kind of so self-absorbed. Our culture had gotten kind of self-absorbed. At least that's what some people would say. And the s training, uh, just woke me up. It was like a, you know, putting hit over the head by a two by four.
Your life is not for you. Your life is to, is to be of service. Your life is, is given to you. To give your life is an instrument of the, of the divine. Your life is, is a opportunity. You have the opportunity, you don't have to, but to make a contribution with your life. And I really got that out of the s training and out of the interactions I had with, with Weer Earhart and Buckminster Fuller, who I write about in the book also, who, who was, had a huge impact on me.
And had do devoted his life to see if one little individual could make a difference that would impact all of humanity in a positive way. And he coined the phrase, Creating a world that works for everyone with no one and nothing left out. [00:07:00] And I remember when I heard that. Create a world that works for everyone with no one and nothing left out.
I thought, Oh my God, what a context to which framework for your life. And so I got very involved with the EST organization and we, Earhart would often gift some of his, um, you know, people, key people that were doing work with him, with quotes that he loved. And he gave me and my husband Bill that quote and we framed it.
It was so right on in our experience, we framed it and we put it on our mantle in 1974. And if I took you to my living room, it's there. Right now. It's, it's, it is the. Context of our life, both of us, my husband too. So I feel so grateful that you asked me about that because it now, it's, now it's, it's almost invisible.
It is who I am. I, I wouldn't say the [00:08:00] quote, but the idea that our life is given to us to give, to, to matter, to make a difference. And we get caught in thinking our life is about being attractive or successful, or, um, looking good or, um, and all of those things are important. And I, I believe in them too, but their interim goals, they're the goals that you have to develop yourself so that you can be a useful member of society.
In my view, they are, they're on the. To making a difference with your life. That's really significant. And I think anyone and everybody alive today can do that. And that quote reminds me, you know, I'm, I'm older than you are. I'm older than most people that are listening probably. But I am definitely gonna be used up when I die.
I'm, I'm not retiring, I'm refiring, you know, I'm, I feel that my life is a gift and I'm gonna give it my all. And that [00:09:00] quote that you read, thank you so much for starting this interview with that, because that is, that is what the whole book is about. And it's not required. No one's making you to do it. But one of the points of the book, and one of the points that I wanna make in, in talking with you, and I think you know this, Is, that's where freedom lives.
You think it would box you in if you have a big commitment, like ending world hunger, which was the first big commitment I made. Um, no, the opposite is true. Instead of trying to keep all your options open, once you choose what's actually yours to do, you're free. You're free to fully express, you're free to fully love, you're free to fully listen for the, for the, you know, the, the kind of guidance that that comes to someone who's made a commitment.
So yes, that quote is very important to me and I hope it's, um, meaningful to other people who've just heard it for the first time.
Nathan Hurd: Thank you so much. That's, that's amazing. [00:10:00] You know, when I think about commitment as. As you're laying out in this book, and I, I wanna talk about like what you actually mean by commitment, but I'm, I'm also wondering, you know, to anyone who's listening here and for myself at certain stages, like getting to where you just described, Right?
Which is trusting in a more expansive purpose that's beyond yourself. I think there's a part of all of us deep down where that knows that, that that can, you know, occasionally touch it, but then it's all the, it's all the stuff in life in day to day life. All the, you know, the, well you just described the comparison and the, the fear, the anxiety that, um, the, that's also there.
So I guess this maybe is when you realized this for the first time, but what was your, Can you just talk for a second about what your life was like before you started to have these realizations and what that, and what changed?
Lynne Twist: Well, before I took, I'll, I'll make the marker, the S training and then the [00:11:00] Birth of the Hunger Project.
And both of those things, Mark, when I really met Buckminster Fuller and, uh, began engaging in, um, what's now called the Human Potential Movement. But in then it was, you know, this kind of new way of seeing your life. Um, but before that, I, um, I went to Stanford University. I got a good education. I married my dreamboat husband, who I'm still married to many, many years later, decades later.
How many years? Uh, 55.
Nathan Hurd: Wow.
Lynne Twist: Wow. That's so inspiring. And I started having kids, and I was a teacher because when I was in college, I, I graduated in 67. Um, women were professionals. Yes, some, but, uh, many, many women kind of went to college to find their husband actually . Um, and at Stanford there were a lot of really smart women there, but even them.
Those women were kind of looking for the right guy. And I was one of those, I [00:12:00] was so happy to be at Stanford and all these amazing men and incredibly accomplished students that I knew were gonna make something of themselves. And then I, you know, fell in love with Bill Twist and I fell ahead over heels in love with them.
And then, you know, he wanted to go to business school, so we moved to Chicago and he went to Northwestern Business School and we started having babies. Mm-hmm. . And I was a substitute teacher. I did the things that wives, young wives married, did in my, let's call, call it my economic class, because we were both from, you know, relatively upper middle class families.
We had privilege, we were well educated. Uh, and that was kind of what you did. And it, we, life wasn't that conscious then, or at least my life wasn't. So we were kind of doing what you're supposed to do and at that time there was a term called yuppies. We were kind of yuppies , right, Right. So we were trying to, you know, learn about wine and figure out how to buy art because that seemed like a cool thing and have the right car.
And I was trying to figure out [00:13:00] how to stay thin and pretty and wear the right clothes for the business meetings. I got invited to for Bill's company and, and you know, he got a good job and, and I was just totally on some kind of, I don't know, predestined track that had no meaning. That was totally false.
I wasn't being myself, I was kind of trying to keep up with the Joneses and I didn't even know the Joneses. Yeah. So, um, and I wasn't happy and I didn't know it because I had the trappings. We had a bmw, which was the cool car at the time. I had these darling children, little babies, adorable babies. Uh, and I looked good and everything, but.
I wasn't happy. I was just scrambling to be a better this or a better that. And did the other women, um, like me and did the, when my husband really stayed with me or was he gonna be woo away cuz he was a handsome, dashing, you know, up and coming guy [00:14:00] was somebody that had take him away from me and, and what was I gonna do if he left me?
And I was all about, I mean all these anxieties that none of it had any bearing or it had no, there was no evidence. I just was like a constant troubled fear. I was totally in fear that, that everything good that I had was gonna go away And, um, And, and it was, it was really, and it was really like that my, the noise in my head was so loud that I couldn't hear anything.
But, uh, those, those thoughts and I, I actually think most people are like this. It's, it's what it means to be human in many ways. But, um, I was so caught in it and I, I didn't know I was unhappy, but when I look back, I know I was, I didn't have a satisfactory moment. I was terrified that I wouldn't make the right dinner.
I was terrified that I would spend too much at the grocery store. I was terrified that I didn't have the right outfit. The women in the, um, and the, the, the wives of the other guys were, you know, were [00:15:00] buying designer clothes and I didn't know what that, which one designer to buy from. And it was also expensive.
And why were they doing that? You know, I was just crazy. So I think some people can relate to this. Plus I wasn't aware of the problems in the world. , I wasn't even paying attention to that. I had so much noise in my head that I wasn't being a helpful citizen to anybody. I was just trying to, you know, keep myself afloat.
Yeah. Um, and then I, I I, I, I'm telling you, this s training thing was such a huge deal for me. And, um, you know, other people find their way through religion maybe, or meditation, or they become a Buddhist or they go to a workshop or they, they hear a podcast like this. We didn't have podcasts then, but this kind of a, they went to, they go to an event maybe that someone like you would be leading and have a realization.
So I'm not saying that's the only way to do it, but for me, that thing was unbelievable. I just woke up, it was like, bang, what are you doing? [00:16:00] And um, after the s training, I actually had such a revelation that my life didn't belong to me. Uh, that it, it made me weep in a good way. That what a relief that this life was given to me and I could just give it.
I didn't need to make it different or better address it up or try to make it something. And it wasn't, I didn't need to fake it for one more minute. Now, I didn't think these thoughts the way I'm telling you now, but that's the process I was in. And then I met Buckminster Fuller, and here's a human being who had totally turned his life over to what I'll call now, uh, making a difference, or some people would call it service.
And became really, in many ways the grandfather of the future, uh, for millions and millions of people. And that example, Really touched me. And I, I realized, and he kept saying, Anybody can do it. It's not, you don't have to [00:17:00] be smart or you don't have to have a good education. You just have, you just have a life and your life.
You're given all these talents and treasures and this energy and this vitality, and what are you gonna do with it? Kind of. And I, I remember thinking, God, how come no one ever told me this , you know? Mm-hmm. . Mm-hmm. instead of letting me on some sort of track to be something I'm not. And so we were headed for, you know, could we join the right country club?
I mean things that are so stupid and make no difference whatsoever. And we dropped all of that. Bill took the s training too, and we started to live what I call an authentic life. Mm-hmm. . And that's when. Buckman are fuller, crossed our path. We, we had this incredible encounter with, uh, the work being done to end world hunger and met John Denver and Warner Earhart, and we started working on hunger and poverty issues.
We started to, we bill started to make more money. We created a foundation. I started to get into what does it mean to actually move money towards the highest good. [00:18:00] So there were a series of what I call very fortunate events in my life, and I make it sound. So simple. Um, and you know, I think people listening might say, Well, well easy for you to say you, you had all those, those markers, those wonderful things that happened to you.
But I suggest that happens to everybody. And if you're not paying attention, you miss it. But you can pay attention now. You, it. It's always coming. The signs are always coming, the guidance is always there. The aperture opportunity to make a difference with your life is always present. It's just waiting for you to realize it and step into that.
And that's why I wrote the book because I feel now at this time in history, the world is. Clamoring for us to step up all of us, each of us in our own way, whatever that is. Whether you're someone like you who's a, a, a ful businessman, who's I'm sure doing in a way that's business for the highest [00:19:00] good, or you're a kindergarten teacher and you're just doing it for two years until you figure out what you wanna do after college, that you, you have a context called My Life Makes a difference in every interaction I have with these little children, these five year.
I want them to remember that the time they had with me and my kindergarten class opened them up to be the best person they could be. And they don't need to remember me, but they need to remember that they felt seen and known and appreciated and acknowledged and affirmed. And I wanna, even if I'm just gonna teach for two years, I'm gonna have it make that kind of a difference.
So you don't need to take on ending world hunger or, you know, transforming the entire world or saving the Amazon rainforest, which is some of the stuff that I have taken on. You can just be you, but authentically you knowing that your, the noise in your head won't go away, but you can quiet it down, it can go in the background, and you dedicate your life to something [00:20:00] greater than your own petty concerns that makes all that noise.
Sometimes go away completely, frankly. And, and, and it'll come back and visit, but it's not so loud. And then you can live authentically, which is such a relief. So that's, that's how I can explain it. But it's not a formula, unfortunately. It's not a Here's, you do this and then you do that, and then you do that.
I, I, I wanted to make it a formula in my book so that people would know what to do. But I, I can't do that. I can only model it. I can only tell stories. I can only give examples. And then you have to find your own way. And I say that it's available to every living human being, and especially now. Mm.
Nathan Hurd: That's, yeah.
Thank you for that reflection. That's powerful. You know, I was thinking, as you were talking, I was, last year I was at a conference and it was a conference where there's a lot of like executives and CEOs of different businesses, [00:21:00] and these are amazing, wonderful people. But I was talking to many of them and I was asking them essentially, what's your relationship with money?
And is it, you know, is it a relationship of anxiety or, and it's so true that literally every single person, when I started to say words like anxiety and fear, they start nodding their heads and agreeing, you know, even in the, the circumstances you would never expect, you know, it's, there's something about that relationship and what.
What I hope people are hearing in what I'm hearing is you don't have to take the long road of, you know, chasing money and, and chasing the things that you just described. Only then to find out you can kind of circumvent it potentially. All right. Before we go any further, I just wanted to jump in and say, if you like the interview that you're hearing, if you enjoy the podcast, take a second and subscribe and follow the podcast to make sure.
Miss any future episodes and even review it. That's the best way you can support [00:22:00] the podcast, but subscribing will make sure you don't miss anything moving forward. I also just wanna mention that in light of all of this conversation around money, you know, many people are feeling scarce right now, especially with the economy as it is.
And, um, there's a group called the Oxford Club. It's a company that I've been affiliated with for a number of years, and it's the, it happens to be the source that I use to manage my own family's investment capital. And there's a core newsletter called the Oxford Communique. It's literally the price of a magazine and you gain access to an ongoing brain trust of.
Investment analysts who have doubled the return of the s and p beat, beat the s and p by 100% over the last 20 years, which give you specific actionable steps to take, which stocks to buy, what price to pay, and exactly when to sell them. So if you want to take control of your own finances to learn more about this so it's not a source of [00:23:00] anxiety and stress anymore, and really find a source of empowerment and strength, then I invite you to go to www.richlifeguy.com/oxford Club.
Again, www.richlifeguy.com/oxford Club. All right, back to the show. Um, so when you, when you're talking about commitment in this book, What do you mean by commitment? I love, I love that you, uh, you actually do break the word down and you talk about it in, in different ways. But what is, you know, if someone's listening, what is a committed life?
What is com that, that kind of
Lynne Twist: commitment? Um, well, uh, it's, some people would call it purpose. I use that word also, and they aren't completely interchangeable, but they're very close. I think some people would call a kind of a vision for the world. What I mean is finding a place in your core, like. It's almost [00:24:00] physical.
Um, when you're in, in touch with what you're really deeply committed to, it of often brings, uh, you close to tears, um, and sometimes tears or there's a stirring, you know, there's a, a phrase, Does it stir your soul? I actually think it does stir your dtm. You know, you, you feel it almost in your gut or in your, when, when you're around someone who's taken a powerful stand.
I use the distinction stand taking. Mm-hmm. . Um, and you know, there's a, a wonderful, very famous quote by our eds who said, Give me a place to stand and I'll move the world. And you can, and you do. Martin Luther King took a stand. And he also took what I call positions. Um, and positions are different than a stand.
And I make a point of this in the book, as you probably remember, a position is a, is an opinion or a, what I'll call very clearly a point of view. And a point of view is actually [00:25:00] almost like a location. So if you're in, you know, in where you're sitting right now looking right at the screen, you. Direct point of view of the screen, but if you moved over to the right or to the left, you and looked at the screen from, you know, from a little bit from the side, it would, it would distort the image just a little bit.
I would look a little bit different. Or if we were in a, let's say an auditorium and you were sitting in the center of the front row, you would see me full face. If you were sitting on the right hand side all the way in the second row from the back, you'd see my profile. So, A point of view is always accurate for the person who has it.
It's a hundred percent accurate for them, but it isn't everybody else's point of view. And opinions are like that. Positions are like that. So the person who's sitting on the right in the second row from the back sees me as a kind of a profile, kind of a small image. And, and if you started arguing with that person, No, no, she's very big and [00:26:00] tall and I, and you know, she looks this way, it would be silly.
You would never do that because that point of view is totally accurate and your point of view is totally accurate. But we get caught in our points of view, our positions, which really come from the way we are raised. You know, you're in Baltimore. I'm in San Francisco. We're in different parts, at least of the same country, but different cultures, I'm sure, and your surroundings, the way you're raised, where you are viewing the world from your point of view, gives you the information you need to be honest and truthful about where you're standing or where you're looking at life from.
You're what I'll call your worldview, and I call that your position and positions can change because you can move to the front row of a theater. You can move to San Francisco from Baltimore. You can, you know, you can move from being an engineer to a, a therapist and you, and then you have a completely different point of view of the world.
A stand is different than a point of view. A [00:27:00] stand is different than a opinion. A stand is different than an opinion. A stand, I believe is like a calling. You find yourself even as a child often, but you don't realize it standing for something that you suddenly realize you deeply believe in, like being on the playground and seeing someone getting bullied that you would not be able to stand it and you would go over there and you would either break it up.
Or, or take the underdog under your wing, and that's a stand that's coming through you from life, I would say for justice. So it may be that you're a natural stand for justice, or perhaps you are someone who's always been drawn to the wild places that you love being, where there's no roads, where there's no people.
Where you can be with the animals and the plants and the trees and the sky and the clouds and the mountains and the rivers [00:28:00] that you're, that you're drawn to, that you're a stand for the wilderness. Or it might be that you, you absolutely, you know, you come to tears when you hear music, a certain kind of music.
It's almost like when you hear jazz, it is who you are. It is who you are, and you become a stand for, you know, music and jazz being available to people. Mm-hmm. . So a stand is something that's, Not something you can check off or accomplish. And I think the same thing's true of purpose and commitment. It's, it's, you can't necessarily check it off and then go on to the next thing.
It's something that calls to you and shapes who you are. The commitment or the purpose or the stand comes back and turns you into the person you need to be to fulfill that. Um, and it, it doesn't require workshops, you know? It, it's, it's really, it shapes you. So when Jane Goodall discovered the.
Communication [00:29:00] and the, you know, the, the, the qualities of primates having consciousness and really having feelings and, and loving and hating and having anger and, and that they were so much like us. That discovery, that revelation, she became a stand for, for making sure the world had a new relationship with primates, with animals, and with the long term future of life.
And, and so it shaped her and she didn't have a science degree when she discovered a lot of this stuff. You know, she, it shaped her into somebody who had the credibility to tell the world that kind of a message. Oprah, you know, was shaped by her media, jobs that she had along the way. All the ones, she had to be one of the greatest spokesperson, I think alive today for the commitment of heart and love and relatedness and forgiveness and compassion.
So I, I feel that, um, You know, this is a long answer to your [00:30:00] question, but when I say commitment, I mean all of that. I mean, what do you stand for? I mean, what are you here for? What is, why were you born now? What are you here to, to contribute, to offer, to make a difference with? What will your life have said at the end of it?
You are up to, really up to. And what kind of legacy do you live? Not just what you leave, but what do you live? And um, and I think people are hungry for that. I think people crave that. I think people don't know that that's actually what they're looking for when they try to, you know, be the richest person in the world or the most famous actress in the world.
I think what they're really looking for, Making a significant, powerful, profound difference with their life. And so that's what I mean by commitment. What are you committed to? Who are you, what are you bringing to the, to, to life itself and, and what's calling to the deepest part of who you are [00:31:00] that stirs your soul and makes you feel so honored to be alive, so honored to be alive right now where you can make that contribution.
What is that? And I don't have a formula for figuring it out, but I know when I talk about it, people, people know what I mean. They know what I mean. So
Nathan Hurd: what, what is your overarching stand?
Lynne Twist: Well I to make a difference with my life, you could say, to create a world that works for everyone, with no one, nothing left out.
I love that phrase. Mm-hmm. . And the way I express it is, I, I worked for many years for the Hunger Project on, on the great human commitment to end world hunger. And I still am deeply committed to, to that outcome for the human family. And ever since I've been working in the Amazon rainforest with indigenous people and really tapping into the deep wisdom of forest, of the spirit of life, and of the indigenous people or the natural custodians of all of that, I've, I've come to really love [00:32:00] these words that I wanna bring forth and environmentally sustainable spiritually.
Socially, just human presence on this planet. And that also is the mission of the Patima Alliance. The organization that my co-founded was my husband and John Perkins. But I also have a stand, as you know, from reading Soul of Money to facilitate the reallocation of the world's financial resources. Away from fear and towards love, away from over consumption, away from power, aggregation of power, away from militarism, away from weapons, away from destruction, which is where most of our money is going.
And to facilitate the reallocation of those financial resources that are really in service of fear now in huge amounts and reallocate that money towards being in service of what we love, the health and wellbeing of ourselves, our children, our families, our communities, our world, the health and wellbeing of, of our planet, our community of life, [00:33:00] and, and the health and wellbeing of all children, of all species for all time.
And I know that that's what everybody wants money to be doing, but we don't live consistent. With moving money in that direction. So that's a stand I have as well.
Nathan Hurd: Mm. What, So, so what are the money myths? Let's just touch on those real quickly, because I do think that that's the, when, when I first read your first book, and I've reflected on it many times since.
I mean, it's so helpful to understand the money myths as you described them, as a pathway to a more expansive perspective.
Lynne Twist: Well, I call the money myths that you're referring to. A a, an unconscious unexamined condition of thinking, an unconscious unexamined mindset that is part of the consumer culture that we've been raised in and that we were swimming in.
That I, I have identified, or I like to name, that there's three toxic myths that we swim inside of not even realizing [00:34:00] that it's an unconscious unexamined mindset, a set of beliefs that we don't even know we have. And those three toxic myths are number one. The unconscious unexamined belief that there's not enough to go around.
There's not enough time, there's not enough money, there's not enough resources, there are not enough love, there's not enough sex, there's not enough water, there's not enough of anything to go around. And somebody somewhere is always gonna be left out. And this is the first toxic myth in what I call the mindset, the false mindset of scarcity.
There's not enough. And it's a mindset. It's a belief system. It's like glasses you don't even know you have. You don't have enough. I don't have enough. We don't have enough. And it's, and you know, it's,
Nathan Hurd: it's programmed really early. Like you like think about musical chairs. The game.
Lynne Twist: Yes. Yeah. I tell the story of musical Tears, that it's a perfect training program for the world in which you live and you get it when you're three, if you go to your first birthday party.
So there's not enough chairs and somebody's always gonna be left [00:35:00] out. And you have to make sure it's not you. And then of course, everybody's left out except for one person, which is exactly the way our system works. So there's not enough is a, is a toxic myth. I believe that that gets internalized into I am not enough.
And so we have a deficit relationship with ourselves. We have massive depression, suicide, mental illness in a consumer culture. That's really the ultimate outcome is the I am not enough experience. Even though we have thousands of things all over the place and we all have, you know, we haven't cleaned out our garage in years and we end up thinking, I am not enough.
Even though the massive consumerism everywhere. The second toxic myth is more, is better. And a, and almost, it's totally unconscious. Our belief is more is better. We believe more. We believe unconsciously, that more of anything is better, more square feet in our house, more freeways, more market share, more.
More black pants, more [00:36:00] shoes, more, more of everything. And if you think about it, it's just an unconscious, unexamined belief. We buy the stuff we already have over and over again. I mean, it's just, it's ridiculous. Our consumer habits are completely insane. And it comes from an unconscious unexamined belief.
More is better. And I like to cite as an example, we have so many homeless people in the world now, particularly in, in my city, San Francisco. Mm-hmm. . But we're not building houses for them. We're building houses for the stuff. We can't fit in the houses we already have. And it's called storage. We have massive storage facilities all around San Francisco where, you know, hu like little houses and apartment buildings and big containers.
And we, and we have all these people that don't have a place to live. So it it, we're, we're putting our stuff, , we're building houses for our stuff, not for the, the people who need them. And, and I, I'll, I'll just say that's a symptom of more is [00:37:00] better, more better is a constant. And now that there's internet and all these marketing geniuses and I, I'm, you know, I'm, I'm pray to it myself and I'm marketing myself all the time.
And the third toxic myth is that's just the way that it is, which is the worst one because that's just the way that it is, has us not question, has us not look under the rocks, has us not holds the whole thing in place. So there's not enough. More is better. And that's just the way that it is, is the mindset, the unconscious mindset of the consumer culture, the commercial culture and the money culture.
And now it's really all of the culture. We actually fiercely without knowing it, believe there's not enough to go around and someone somewhere is gonna be left out and we're convinced it cannot be us or ours, whoever we consider that to be. So it's unfortunate that people are left out and we will help them someday, [00:38:00] but only when we have way, way, way, way, way more than we need so that we're safe.
Me and mine are safe from not being left out when in fact, the real truth, which I know you're gonna get to, and I'll say it now. Mm-hmm. is, is what I call the radical surprising truth is there's. There's enough for everyone everywhere to have a healthy and productive life. We don't need to be stealing from each other, building, building gates around our houses.
We don't need to be en each other. We don't need, we, There's enough for everyone, everywhere to have a healthy breck life. If we change the way we think. If we don't change the way we think, we just accumulate, accumulate, accumulate, accumulate until there's nothing left. But you know that, So this toxic set of myths are at the root, in my view of almost every major problem on this planet.
Poverty, clearly at the root of poverty, clearly at the root of, of, of [00:39:00] violence because everybody's fighting over resources and they're fighting over oil and mining and gold and, and, and coal, tan and farmland, and water. Ugh. It's just awful. And it clearly, it's the source of our, our dissatisfaction with ourself.
Clearly it's the source of our climate crisis. It's, it's, it's this mindset of scarcity that has us taking way more than we need and, you know, screwing our planet up. So to me it's, it's at the core of the mindset that has us crazy and crazy about money and anxious and upset all the time about money, because the money system, the way we relate to money, the whole thing is rooted in that mindset of scarcity, that I'm calling a lie.
And, and, you know, Buddha said the source of all suffering is a lie. And to me, that's the source of so much suffering on this planet. So maybe I'm oversimplifying, but that's, that's, that's what I see. [00:40:00]
Nathan Hurd: Well, how did your per, how did your perspective shift? It was in your book where you've made this shift to finally realize that there is in fact enough, but.
Where did, where did you make that shift and how, you know, if anyone's listening to this, how can they work their way towards having that realization for themselves if it's conscious or unconscious?
Lynne Twist: Well, I got it from listening to Buck, Mr. Fuller, so I hope people can get it from listening to me because I'm passing on his, his revelation, he said in 19 76, 19 76, he said this, We passed a threshold that's critical and changes everything for the human race, and that threshold is this, that we now live in a world.
In 1976, he said this, where there is enough for everyone, everywhere to have a healthy and productive life. And he said, We're doing so much more with so much less in 1976 that the direction of our [00:41:00] innovation, the direction of our science, the direction of our inventiveness, the direction of our genius is to do more and more with less and less we will invent machines, technologies that blow our minds away, where we do way, way, way, way more with less and less and less in the future.
He said this in 76, and that is the direction of the human genius. So he said, We're at a point now where there's enough for everyone, everywhere to have a healthy and productive life. And we need to shift our mindset from a you or me paradigm, a paradigm of scarcity, where you make it at my expense or I make it at your expense because there's not enough for both of us, which is a you or me way of seeing the world, a you or me paradigm, literally a paradigm to.
A you and me paradigm where you and I can both make it at no one's expense because there's enough for everyone. And he said it will take 50 years [00:42:00] in 76 for us to realize this. And what it will take is the crumbling of all the institutions of humankind because they're all rooted in a you or me paradigm, which is no longer accurate.
He said, The economy is clearly rooted in a you or me paradigm, a scarcity paradigm. He said, But education is rooted in a you or me paradigm. Governance is rooted in you or me, paradigm. And he named all the big institutions in in society. And then he got to the, you know, the big one he said, and even religion.
Is rooted in a you or me paradigm. That's why we have these religious wars. So it will take the crumbling, the dysfunction of every one of these institutions, which will take place. He said, in about 50 years they'll be so dysfunctional. We can't fix them anymore. We can't repair them, we can't patch them up anymore.
They'll need to dissolve, fall apart, and we'll need to recreate every one of the [00:43:00] great institutions of humankind. From a you and me paradigm, a paradigm of profound sufficiency. And when we do that, we will be living in the you and me paradigm and we will manifest because it's already true. The sufficiency of life, the fullness of life, the gratefulness of life, uh, which is, which was very radical when he said it.
And I call it radical still because here we are in the environmental crisis and it looks like we're running out of everything, water, um, uh, soil. And we are, because we think it's scarce and because we hoard it and don't take care of it, it's a self-fulfilling prophecy. So, um, the, the, the radical surprising truth is the distinction of enough, which, let me just say because I wanna make sure I don't leave people with the wrong impression, is not an amount, enough is a state [00:44:00] of being with what is so, Enough or sufficiency is a relationship with the authentic reality of the world.
Uh, enough or sufficiency is a context that when you stand in the enoughness of yourself, who you are, you're enough exactly the way you are. From there, you can contribute. And there's a principle that, um, that I'd like to say that if you let go of trying to get more of what you don't really need, it frees up oceans of energy that's all tied up in the chase to turn and, and pay attention to what you already have.
When you pay attention to what you already have, when you nourish what you already have, when you love and share what you already have, it expands. And another way of saying that, that shorter is what you [00:45:00] appreciate. Appreciates. So I got it all from Bucky Fuller and hopefully I'm passing it on in a way that people can get it from me.
Nathan Hurd: I, I mean, I literally have chills, so I think, I think that was, that was, that was amazing. So are there, just outta curiosity, are there books written about Bucky Fuller?
Lynne Twist: Well, he wrote books. There's a book called Fuller's View, A Fuller View, which his last name was Fuller. There's something called the Buckminster Fuller Institute, and then the archives of Buckminster Fuller at Stanford University.
And if you just look up Buckminster Fuller on the, on the web, you'll get all kinds of beautiful quotes and articles that either about him or by him that that really ring true, I believe will ring true with almost, he predicted that in 50 years everything would start to dissolve. And yeah, that's 1976.
That would be, 2026, which, you know, we're almost there. Mm-hmm. and, you know, our political system is falling apart. Our education system is a mess. Our healthcare thing is a mess. [00:46:00] Our climate is in a horrible crisis. You know, we're, we're, we're a mess, but in a way that Bucky would say is the appropriate breakdown for an inaccurate context.
Um, and so it's, it's, it's an appropriate dissolving. It's a, it's a actually breakdown that allows us to have the breakthrough. And I really feel it's, as Paul Hawkin, my great friend and the great ecologist says it, A climate crisis is not happening to us. We're not the victims of it. It's happening for us.
Hmm. It's feedback, powerful, powerful feedback from the mother, and it's designed to awaken us so that we can change course. We couldn't figure out how to do it on our own. So she's giving us a very harsh and. Difficult disruption so that we learn we can't go on like this. We just can't. And she won't let us.
So it's very powerful feedback. [00:47:00] It's happening for us, not to us. The pandemic too, I feel it happened for us, not to us. Yes, I was a victim of it. I got very, very sick. Yes. I live, I lost people that I loved. Yes. But you know what's at stake here is the future of life. All life. So we needed a disruption and we got it.
Um, and there'll be more of that. We, and we will, My view is we will change course dramatically. We will not just adapt, we will transform, uh, because, you know, life is life and that's what life does.
Nathan Hurd: Wow. So you, um, so for anyone that's listening to this, that, that, uh, wants to take steps towards living a more committed life, um, I love a few, I, a few things stuck out to me.
There many things did, but one of the things was what he originally said, but what you just articulated so nicely, which is [00:48:00] the promise of just there's enough for everyone to have a healthy and stable life like that. When you say like that, that seems. Entirely possible. And it seems completely in alignment with our capabilities, but that's just not often how we, we think about it.
Um, in, in the book you talk about a lot of ways to kind of cultivate this sense of commitment or listen for it. And one of the chapters is called Guidance, Guidance from Source. And you, and you just mentioned this, and one of the statements, and this is a little statement that just caught my eye, but I wanted to get your thoughts on it, is in a way the source is the listening.
And so could you say anything about what you mean by. The listening and you know, what do you mean by source and where can people start to, to, you know, cultivate their own sense of commitment? [00:49:00]
Lynne Twist: Well, you know, we're, we're talking a little bit about the ineffable, you know, that the stuff that's hard to put into words, but I would say that I think, um, the way you put it just now was, was quite beautiful.
There is guidance, I believe, and, you know, I can't convince people of this necessarily, and I'm not even trying to, but I would. Submit or assert that everybody knows that there's moments where you realize, Oh my God, I see why that happened to me. That gave me the independence I was looking for. And I, God, it came harshly.
It was a divorce and I, it was ugly and horrible and the person I love most in the world suddenly didn't love me and we had to break up and ah, it was awful. But now I, I, I have my own voice in a way that I didn't know how to find it. So sometimes it's that sometimes the circumstances arrange themselves to give you the teaching you need to find your source.
And if you re-listen to those circumstances is one way of [00:50:00] talking about what you just said or re-appreciate. Or give your attention and listening to those circumstances, you'll see that you actually are guided. You're being taken care of by something, something greater than your own desires or wants or your own intelligence.
We have, uh, all have coincidences. We have intuition, we have deja vu. We have things that are sometimes the out of the box things that happen to us that we try to figure out how to explain and we can't. Um, maybe that's guidance. Who knows? I think it is. I think there's tons of guidance. I think that's what is happening.
I think that the guidance is in the listening. It's almost like. You know, I know some people that listen to this may be religious and that this may be translatable into God, uh, or your religion. Um, if that floats your boat, please listen to it that way. If it doesn't, listen to it this way, that there are [00:51:00] markers, there are ways and, uh, and, and streams of energy that are, are helpful.
You know, they're either angels or they're energies. Um, you know, when you have a feeling in your gut that it's something isn't right, is that your gut? Is that a, is that a, because you had a, a rotten apple? No. It's because you are being guided by your body, uh, that this wasn't right. You feel, you feel nauseous, You don't feel good about what the contract you just signed or the, the thing that when you saw someone slapping their child in the airport and it, you, your body felt that isn't right.
We know. We know that there's guidance. We know that there's, you know, even the people who don't believe this, I'm gonna say, you know, too, that there's, there's something going on that's larger than your wants and needs and all that stuff. And I call it source, uh, for me, sometimes it's the redwoods that are right near [00:52:00] my house.
If I go and sit at the bottom of them and touch, you know, lean against one with my back and ask the questions that I have that I'm struggling with for my courses or my book, something comes to me. I don't know where it comes from, but I trust that now. Uh, maybe it's asking your ancestors for guidance and, and some people really, really do that, and it makes a huge difference to them.
So guidance is available if you listen for it. So it, it isn't there if you don't listen. I mean, or maybe it is, but the listening. Activates it. The listening in many ways is the source. So listening and paying attention and being someone who, who knows there's, there's more going on than we can explain and that's a good thing.
So I don't know if that's, it's not really an answer, but I'm pointing to something cuz that's the best you can do with source. Yeah,
Nathan Hurd: no, you know that it resonates with me a lot because the truth is [00:53:00] that, as you described before, I really do believe that the people that I know that I admire most in my own life, and certainly the glimmers of myself that I am most trusting of are the times where I feel like I'm able to listen to that inner guidance.
And the people I admire most seem to live their lives with the ability to quiet the noise in their mind and to listen to something deeper and to act on that, that you know, that deeper. Calling that deeper voice, whatever you might say. So yeah, I mean, I think that's, that's really wonderful and helpful.
Um, you kind of talked about this before, but what gives you the most hope for the future? Like, personally? Um,
Lynne Twist: yeah, let me think. Well, I think, I think business is just awesome. And I, I, and partly it's because you're a business guy and that's who I'm talking to here. But I really do think it's awesome. It's the largest institution on earth [00:54:00] now, bigger than governments.
And, you know, that's a function of all this accumulation of wealth and aggregated power, which I, I don't subscribe to and I don't think is very good for, for the people who have it. Um, and you know, the, the extreme wealth, I think is a, is actually a huge, huge problem and not healthy for any of us, including the people who have it.
I'm not talking about that. I'm talking about business. Because business is accountable, has accountability structures inside of it that are much more effective than government. And government is paralyzed and in paralysis and no matter who's in charge, it's, it's paralyzing because, The person, whoever is in charge has to get reelected.
I mean, the, the system just is, is, is just, doesn't work. Like Bucky said, it wouldn't. Mm-hmm. . So, you know, I work in Ecuador. We also have things we do in Peru, obviously the United States, but all these governments are paralyzed and they really can't get, they can get stuff done, but not a lot done. The business isn't paralyzed like that.
I know you have [00:55:00] accountability to your stockholders and your stakeholders. Entrepreneurs don't, though, they just can fly with the wind. But there's a thing about business now that I very excited about and I, it gives me a lot of hope because you can turn on a dime. I mean, I had a meeting yesterday with a genius, the business genius.
The guy is just like ridiculous. He's so smart. But it's his businesses who made him that smart. So I think business has a huge role to play right now, and investment has an impact where money moves has a huge impact, not just for the person who moves it there so that they get a return, no. So that we get a return on the planet here.
And so where, where we put money has a huge impact and business has a lot to say about that. So that gives me hope, especially people who are consciously realizing where money flows has a real impact. And then of course, you know, anybody who, [00:56:00] who's asked that question, we'll say young people, because young people are our elders in universe time.
As Buckminster Fuller said, they've come into a more complete, more evolved universe than we can understand. And that's, those are Bucky's words and I believe them. Um, you know, my granddaughter is just starting law school. She's living in our home now, and she is so. , I, you know, she's my granddaughter. Of course, she's the best person in the world, but even if she weren't, she's, she's, she's aware, she's socially conscious.
She's, she pays attention to where her money goes. Her, her garbage goes. Her attention goes. She, she's really navigating a very dangerous and scary world with incredible grace and, and competence. And I, I know that, you know, she's a, a wonderful kid and she's a lucky person. She was raised well in all of that, and she has a deep faith, but she's also, it's her age.
She's aware that her actions make a difference. For hundreds and thousands of years in the future. And, and I wasn't raised that [00:57:00] way, but the people who are born now, they know that the, that choices they make impact the future of life. They know that. And even if they're, they weren't raised to understand that, they can feel it in their bodies.
So I think young people are my hope for the future. I think business has a huge role to play and is starting to wake up to the possibility and power of what business can do. And the redirection of financial resources, which I'm all about, is very, very key. And the people who have the power to do that, and I know you do, and that's a lot of what you're listeners are doing, that gives me hope too.
People who are awake and know that it's not about profit over here. It's about profit out there. What is the social profit? That your money is generating not your financial profit to you, the social profit that you're generating, and when you're looking from there, we can move mountains.
Nathan Hurd: Mm. Thank you so much for, for, for walking [00:58:00] through that.
Are you working on something now called the Sacred Waters Initiative?
Lynne Twist: The Amazon Sacred Headwaters Initiative? Yes. It's the, it's the most biodiverse rainforest on earth in the, in the Amazon rainforest and with 30 indigenous groups that it's the largest indigenous led conservation program on earth.
It's a very, very important initiative called the Amazon Sacred Headwaters Initiative. And there's a website for it so people can look it up.
Nathan Hurd: And that is the website's
Lynne Twist: exactly. Yes. Uhhuh. Yeah. And it's part of the, it's not part of, but it's, it was inspired in many ways and, and Supported, is supported by the Pachamama Alliance.
So if people go to pachamama.org, they'll and, and type in Amazon Sacred Headwaters, it'll take you to the, the site and the pachemama.org site also has wonderful, it has the Awakening the Dreamer Symposium, which I just quoted the, the purpose of, and it also has journeys to the rainforest, which was one of the ways that I found.
Committed life. [00:59:00] Mm. And then of course we have the Soul of Money Institute website, which is where people can take courses on, on Soul of Money courses about, about money and, and life. We have wonderful courses and then there's fundraising courses and there's courses for women. We got all sides serves of cool stuff.
Nathan Hurd: That's amazing. So I wanted to ask you one last thing. The book, first of all, the book is incredible and we've barely scratched the surface and it goes through in great detail with, I mean, you told a number of stories here and there are. So many more incredible stories in the book, but you really walk through what is, what is a committed life look like, how to cultivate a committed life, and then how to actually bring it forth into the world and what sort of, you know, barriers and resistance and opportunities might arise.
And it's just a, a really amazing roadmap. And I love at the end you actually have a, a number of discussion questions that are reflective [01:00:00] and, you know, supportive of conversation. And so it's, it's, I can't say enough about the book, but maybe we could close this way. Um, you know, for anyone imagining what a committed life might look like for themselves, I was reading this book and I was thinking about, and you, you can feel free to tell a different story if you'd like, but I was thinking about a story you told in your first book about the time you spent with your mother towards the end of her life.
And I was thinking about that story, having read that book before. In the context of this book, because I just kept calling out to me that like, what an incredible example of a committed life. And, and the story was just really beautiful. So whether you would, you, would you be willing to share that story or if you feel like there's another story that you would rather share that articulates an example of a committed life better, then that's
Lynne Twist: great too.
Um, well I'll, I'll talk about my mom cuz that's, it's nice to that you, that you noticed that her final day, [01:01:00] she, she wanted to give money to her grandchildren while she was alive. And so she, um, she, we sat down and every day we would, she would send $10,000 to one of her grandchildren. And, but before she did it, we lit a candle and I put pictures of.
Person, that grandchild in front of her, and we would talk about what she loved about that child or that teenager, depending, She had 13 grandchildren so that we did this 13 times and, and then she would write a note to them, I want you to have this while I'm alive because this is how I see you. And, and she acknowledged them.
I was, the mix made me cry. And then we would, I would fold up the letter and. I would go to the mailbox, we would send it. She died in 1998. And, and it was just awesome to do that with her. So that's one part. And then the other thing that I think you're talking about is that she asked me to, she knew she was gonna die in like 30 days.
We, we knew she was getting close and she was [01:02:00] still really conscious. And she, she said, I want you to call the, that girl at the cleaners, and I want her to come to my funeral, what her name is, do. Because she's been so kind to me over these last few years. And also Johnny at the pharmacy, he's the delivery boy.
He comes to my house and every time I see him, he gives me such a great smile and such an uplift. And then, you know, Yuri, who's the waitress at the, at the restaurant, you know, we always go to that French restaurant that waitress, she makes me so happy. I go there so often. I want them at my funeral. I want them to sit right behind the family because they become my family.
Now that I'm in my, you know, this age of life, these people, and then my manicurist, like when she comes and brings me all the news of Palm Springs. So these people who you would think are people that you know, She paid them, but they became important people in her life and they made a [01:03:00] difference and she wanted them to know that.
So we called them. I got their phone numbers, we called them and she said, This is Dorothy Tenney. I'm, I'm gonna die high pretty soon, probably in a couple weeks. This is my daughter Lynn. She's gonna be inviting you to my funeral. I want you to sit behind the family the second row because you've been so important to me.
And I want you to know what a difference you've made to, to my life. And I'll tell you, I I, it was, you know, the people, first of all, when someone calls and says, I'm gonna die in a couple weeks, kind of speechless. But this was the most amazing process that I did with her. And it, it pointed out to me that you don't have to end world hunger to make a difference with your life.
You can be a manicurist. and be kind and generous and loving and deeply listen to the person whose nails your painting in a way that they feel more seen and more affirmed in who they are. And that's [01:04:00] what the manicures did for my mom. And my mom wanted to do that for her. So is that what you want me to tell?
Anyway, That's a good story. .
Nathan Hurd: It's an amazing story. Amazing story. Thank you so much for sharing it. And, and yeah, I mean, and in addition, wasn't your mom a, wasn't she a fundraiser for a good portion of her life?
Lynne Twist: Yeah. Yeah. And she raised money and she remembered, we reminisced on all the fundraising she campaign she'd done and tried to add up how much money she'd raised.
We couldn't figure that out. But she did remember that when she was a young woman, she raised $26,000 to build a wing on an orphanage. And that the children who were adopted from that orphanage. Were probably now grandparents of their own families. And so she pointed out that the $26,000 that she raised and the money that was given to that orphanage was still at work in people's lives, that the money got spent right away, but the difference it make made would last forever.
[01:05:00] So that was another beautiful thing that she taught me.
Nathan Hurd: That's a committed life and a life well lived. Mm-hmm. . Amazing. Thank you so much, Lynn. This has been, I mean, I, I could just, of course I could ask you questions and talk to you for hours and hours, but it's been a real privilege and I think you mentioned some of the sites.
Is there any, like, what's the number one place that people should go if they wanna follow you or learn more about you or follow your.
Lynne Twist: They should go to soul of money.org and they all see courses and, and opportunities to do courses that have to do with your relationship with money. And we have a whole thing going now with women.
We have something called the Sophia Circle, which is a course for women that's six months long. And then we, we do personal coaching. We have a wonderful course fundraising calls, course called Fundraising from the Heart, Teaches how to fundraise with integrity. And then pachamama.org is the other work that, that we do.
My partner Sarah Vetter, who's, who's actually in the room with me right now and I, [01:06:00] we do both the Soul of Money Institute. She's the managing director and she's the man major gift fundraiser for PAMA Alliance. And we, we work not only in the rainforest, but we do courses all over the world. To awaken people from the trance and have them live a committed life.
And then of course, you can just go on any site that sells books and, and type in my name and live living a committed life. And you can order the book now or buy it in bookstores when, when it, when it's act actually in the bookstores.
Nathan Hurd: Mm. Well, I've got my pre-order copy and I recommend anyone listening gets theirs.
Thank you so much, Lynn. It's been such a joy.
Lynne Twist: Thank you, Nathan, and thank you everybody. All
Nathan Hurd: right. Before you go, if you liked what you heard, don't forget to subscribe on your favorite podcast player. And if you enjoyed the conversation or any other, please leave a review. It's the single best way you can support the podcast and I would be so incredibly grateful for your support.
So thank you so [01:07:00] much. I hope this was a good one. And until next time, this has been Rich Life Lab.