Ted Capshaw lives a life build around his idea to "Stay True". For many years he has partnered with some of the most prominent businesses in the US to support founders, executives, boards and leaders of all stripes and experiences levels, helping them transform in similar ways. He lives a life that is both deeply authentic and also very prosperous. He's proof that you can actually have it all - Abundant financial success, thriving relationships, great health and a legacy that makes you proud. In this wide-ranging conversation we discuss how to strengthen relationships, be a leader in your own life, process difficult emotions, reorient yourself when you run astray and build a life that "keeps the main thing the main thing", as he often says. If you're interested in transforming your life to be filled with greater meaning and success, this conversation is for you.
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To your richest possible life!
[00:00:00] Nathan Hurd: Ted Capshaw, it is so great to see you, man. You are truly one of my favorite people in the world, and I just, I'm really grateful that you're sitting down to take this time. I know how closely you hold the space in your life and the people in your life and your work, and I'm grateful that you are sharing some of that space with me and with the listeners today.
Um, but for, for anyone that's listening that might not know who you are that hasn't heard your name before, can you just give a little context about, you know, [00:02:00] your background and, and, uh, catch people up?
[00:02:05] Ted Capshaw: That's a big old question, right. For all of us, I think the, and I've thought about that over many, many years, and it's actually turned into an exercise that I do with many people that I partner with and coach, which is, you know, just simply like, if somebody asks you that loaded question, like you just asked me, how could you quickly give them a, a, a look into, to your soul, into who you are?
And so I, I kind of say, in order to know me, you need to know X. Right? Like, what are those things? And I should preface my answer by saying, There's many, many things you need to know about me. Obviously there's many things I need to know about you. There's many things you need to know about every individual listener that you have, but for me, I always say I, in order to know me, the good, the bad, my depths of my insecurities, the, the, the highest of joys and all the rest of it.
You need to [00:03:00] know about my upbringing in a transracial home. Mm-hmm. Um, my parents had two biological kids. They're, they're white. Um, two biological kids. My sister Kate, and my brother Dan. Then they adopted me in 1971 and I always say 1971 cause I wanna give context to that. Yeah. Transracial adoptions weren't happening back then.
Right. Um, and my parents as a story, and I have the letter that they wrote to me before I came home, um, they named me Theodore cuz it means a gift from God. It chokes me up even thinking about it, but Wow. They were thinking about fostering and walking into the, the, uh, I'm orphanage and there I was and they said, that's our son.
And they went to adopt. And that wasn't an easy thing to do. And family members and everything, you know, looked at that a little differently. But, and then they went on and they adopted my sister from Vietnam, who's also biracial like me, she's half Vietnamese and half black. And then they had another biological kid.
And I, I bring that up to say I grew up in a [00:04:00] home of love and acceptance, but the world around me did not match. And so, um, I was a very confused and eventually wound up being a pretty angry kid. Um, but, and I, and we may get de deeper into the story, but I'll just simply say, A lot of, lot of struggling to be accepted.
Uh, you know, all the way. Yeah. I mean, there's death to it. Like, I wasn't even allowed in my neighbor's home. I wasn't allowed to swim in the pool that it was across the street. I would stand at the fence and watch everybody swim and, I mean, but they were friendly to my house. But they were several things that I was accepted for in the community.
And one of 'em was sports. I was a gifted athlete. Mm-hmm. . And so I wound up putting all my energy into that. Um, but again, I got kicked outta high school in the 10th grade, got transferred to an all boys. There's a lot of depth to that. Um, but it's, it's, it's the lens that I come from and it's what I'm trying to give back to the world, which is just unequivocal acceptance of people [00:05:00] and wanting people to be understood and all the rest of that.
And it's also part of the parts of me that are broken that to some degree beyond repair, you know, which we could get to that stuff, but you need to know about that. Part of me. Mm-hmm. . Um, the other thing that you need to know, if you don't know my father who is in pictures behind me, you just simply don't know who I am.
Um, unfortunately I lost him 25 years ago on Father's Day, um, ironically on Father's Day, and he's still the most impactful man in my life, is you've heard me say many times over, I, if I let that sorrow hit me today, I'll be on my knees. Having said that, it probably was the best thing that ever happened to me.
I live differently. I love deeper. I see the world differently. Um, and he still, 25 years later is a huge part of my life. So if you don't know him, you hear me talk about him all the time. I will keep him alive cause he is alive in me. Mm-hmm. [00:06:00] Um, if you don't know him and his impact on me and the impact of his loss on me, and the twist and turns that my life took after I lost him.
And you really don't understand how I got to the place of, within my own home and out in the world. Um, and then if you don't know, my wife Angel, who is my angel, who I met a year after I losing my dad and I was a train wreck. Mm. Um, had just moved back to Baltimore from Minneapolis, Minnesota, um, and was in really rough shape.
So the man that she, you know, stuck with is not the man that I am today. The, the man that, that I, that she met was broken in every possible way. Um, but she's my angel. And then we are blessed enough to have two kids, Jackson and Maxwell, my two beautiful sons. And I had kids late. Uh, you know, I've kind of dealt with life's on life's terms.
I always wanted to be a dad, but as I said, there's all these different tentacles. Losing my own father, um, had me believing that I [00:07:00] wasn't in a position to be a father. And so mm-hmm. , I had my first son, thank God, at 40 years old. Um, and that was Jackson and. Man, do I cherish the role of father? I feel like the luckiest man alive.
And then you need to know the mission that I'm on, you know, in the world to, to impact people, which we can get more into. Some of that. I'll just simply say there's a lot to the approach that I take and there's a lot to what I'm trying to build here. Not build. Cause I'm not trying to build anything, honestly.
I'm trying to have impact. I used to think that prior to my dad's death, I was trying to prove myself. I was in Minneapolis, I was politic, and the mayor was even talking about me and Minneapolis, like we need Ted Capshaw to be in politics. And I used to sell me to met next Martin Luther King, change the world and all this other stuff.
And now one of my guiding lights is that starfish palm, which is, you know, I think you know it, the little boy walking across the beach and there's a bunch of starfish and he starts throwing 'em in. And some old fisherman says, you're not, [00:08:00] what are you doing? You're not gonna have any impact. And he picks up another starfish, throws it into the ocean, and is like, but I just had an impact on them.
And that's kind of the way I do my work Now. I'm not, I'm not trying to change the world, but I am trying to change the world for one person, as the saying goes. And so, um, that's important to know about me too. Again, man, there's, it's a loaded question. There's a lot to that and people listening to us right now, whoa man, I need to hear a little bit more about that, that and that.
But I always tell people like, if you think about your life and you had to explain like the big parts of it, what would it be? And those would be it for.
[00:08:40] Nathan Hurd: You know, one of the things you've taught me in my life, first of all, thank you for that. I think it was actually really a, uh, a great way to describe and give people a sense of who you are.
And that's one of the things I've learned from you is how to be open and authentic [00:09:00] and sincere about the way that I communicate with other people. Um, and it's something I've seen you impact many people with. So it's a powerful way to think about like, you know, if I was gonna share with my, my, my true self with the world and with another, with or with another person, what are the key things they would actually need to know?
Because I mean, gosh, I don't know. Before I met you years ago, honestly, and, uh, and certainly still as I observe many of the people I'm in relationship with today, a lot of the stuff that you just mentioned, Simply doesn't come up or it's, it's, no, it's in many cases it's never shared. No. Um, but people have known each other, quote unquote, for years, you know?
[00:09:41] Ted Capshaw: Um, well, that's what I've learned. It's, it, it, you know, just add a little bit more depth to Yeah. You know, the dad thing, the, as you know, my mantras stay true and that, that's really what we're talking about right now, like the authenticity thing and everything that gets thrown around. Why I said losing my dad was the best thing that ever happened to me is that, [00:10:00] you know, he died of cancer and, and I was, listened to the language that I used.
I was lucky enough to have some death of conversation with him on his deathbed and, you know, he kicked me around a little bit and challenged me and basically he called me a. Like, you're out there trying to prove it. You're hiding behind your muscles, you're hiding behind your, you know, D one football and now you're putting on a sports code and you're trying to prove to the world that you're smart and all this other stuff.
Cause at the time I was like, I'm gonna go get my doctorate degree. Like you dad. He was a college president, so I'm gonna go get my doctorate degree. He talked me out. True story. He talked me out of getting my master's. Yeah, you don't need it. What do you want to get your masters for? Really? I, I was about two credits away and I write a paper and he was like, well, what do you need it for, for the work that you wanna do?
You don't need it, but I'll say this. He challenged me to present the world, who I really was. And the world saw this guy that was trying to articulate his words and put himself together and all this other stuff. [00:11:00] Um, and behind the scenes far too often was he holding me in tears. As a grown man, as a young guy in his young twenties and having deep conversations about insecurities and stuff, he said, the world needs you.
The world needs the depth of who you are. You're an emotional, emotional man, and you may fear that people look down on you. So the point that the lesson that I learned through all of that is that we all have death to us. I surely had death to us, and I wasn't presenting the world. Now it took years and about years, I mean, three or four years before I had the courage to even start to step into that.
But that was one of the biggest lessons. It's still, you know, you know it. So my necklace, it's everywhere. Stay true is everywhere because I think it's the hardest work that I've ever done, but it's given me great peace. And a huge part of me is emotion. I'm a feeler. I'm a deep thinker. I'll see right through someone.
Um, angel, my wife asked me years ago like, well, how do. How did you get so [00:12:00] good? Like going in the room and peeling it back and knowing when somebody's feeling and I said, well, I know what the depth of pain feels like so I can see it in somebody else like that. And then I'll just, I'll roll it out and I'll invite them in in a very gentle way to express what's in what I see.
Cause I know what it looks like, . I know what it feels like. So anyway, I just, I think that's important to say, you know, to tie the knot up about why this came to be the way that, I think it's just a huge part of the work. Hmm.
[00:12:33] Nathan Hurd: Yeah. Thank you so much for that. Um, I I'd like to ask you a little bit more about Stay True and how that shows up in your life today.
I do want to just mention that, um, you sort of alluded to this, but you know, you, I, we've had the, the, I've had the privilege of working with you, uh, professionally in business. You've ha you've come into our business and you've worked with our team and with leadership and Yeah. I mean, you've made an incredible impact in our [00:13:00] company and I've, and I've had the ability to, uh, observe that and enjoy it and to learn from it.
And then you and I have become really close over the years, uh, separate from that. But I know you do a lot of that work with a lot of companies, and one of the things that I've observed in you is certainly stay true, not just as a, you know, the way you sign off on emails, which you do, but as a way you. It, it's an energy that you give off.
It's a, it seems to be a way that you really live your whole life. And I think a lot of us, we aspire to hold values in ourselves and in the way that we view the world and the way we conduct ourselves. And um, and I'd love to just ask you, you know, how does state, what does state true mean to you today? Um, anything else you wanna say about where it came from, but then, you know, how does, how do you reflect it into your life?
[00:13:51] Ted Capshaw: It's deep, deeper than deep for me. Nate. I, and you know, it's interesting because a lot of people that get to know me over the course of five or 10 years, they think like, stay [00:14:00] true is a, it's part of my business, or it's a, it's something that my signature, whatever stay True is 25 years old. You know, my brother mentioned Stay true at my wedding.
I mean, it's, the journey started back then, like, because I started thinking about what it meant because my dad literally used those words before he died. And I grabbed those two words. Don't know why. But I grabbed those two words and I ran with it. And I, you know, um, but I'll use the business as an example, right?
The, I'll go back to when I started this thing 12 or 13 years ago. I told Angel, I am going to go see if, like my truth, my approach stay true, will land with people. And if it doesn't, I'll go back and get a job. So I was convicted from the beginning. And the tough part about stay true in a business setting for you, you, you know what I talk about, I talk about relationships.
I talk about understanding one another. I talk about trust. I talk [00:15:00] about these things and I won't straight from the. Right. I won't even, when I'm pushed as straight from the past when I'm starting to feel, what does this have to do with business? You know, Ted lacks business acumen, boom, boom, boom, boom. I will not straight from the past.
Right? And that stay true at its very essence. Now, hard that is when you're sitting across from a c e O that's, you know, paying you X amount of money a month and they're digging into you going, well, how? Tell, help me understand how this helps the bottom line. And I'm like, I'm not leaving this space that is stay true in its essence.
And I'm so convicted in the work that I won't straight from that path, right? And so for our listeners, they are challenging. Like, what other areas? So, so you ask me, my family, in what ways am I gonna stay true to my family? It may be as simple as, you know what? My family will be more fulfilled. This may sound bizarre to you, staying home for Thanksgiving rather than going over to.
X person's [00:16:00] house that everybody is articulated that they don't want to go to. But if we don't go, we will be looked down upon . Yeah. Well, what decision are you gonna make? Now that doesn't mean that I'm a rebel by any measure. It doesn't mean that I'm, you know, going against the grain all the time and i'll, it, it doesn't mean that at all.
Stay true, is [00:17:00] exploring the depths of who you are and being convicted enough to stay in that space. So, Hope that helps.
[00:17:07] Nathan Hurd: Yeah, no, it's, it's extremely helpful.
You know, when we started this conversation before we actually turned on the camera, I told you that over the last day, really yesterday, for, for whatever reason, I just was overwhelmed with sadness. It's very rare that this happens. And you know what, what I so admire in you is all the different, uh, lessons and seasons that you've gone through in life and how you reflect on those seasons.
And you said something earlier, which I've heard you say before, and it really, there's a deeper concept behind it that I'd love to talk about with you. So you mentioned before that your father's passing, you now view as one of the best things that's ever happened to you. And I remember when you first told me that I like couldn't wrap my head around it, but I also [00:18:00] remember that you.
I've, I've gone through an exercise with you, um, and I've reflected on this many times where you asked me to list out the three worst events of my life. Yeah. And, and then we talked about, you know, evaluating each one. And, and, um, what I, what I guess I'm asking is, could you talk about and reflect back on your own life if you'd like, and some of the events that, that you've sort of been through or that you've recast, but also talk a little bit about this idea of transforming the most difficult experiences of our lives into, as you say, in this case, one of the best.
How do you think about that?
[00:18:42] Ted Capshaw: Boy, it is my mission. I think you've heard me say before, my, my, my mantra in my business is helping people and companies grow before tragedy. So if you think about it, for many, many people transformed during tragedy. It took tragedy. For me to even put foot on path towards, [00:19:00] you know, quote unquote transformation.
My hope would be that more people lean into transforming before. But when I say things like, you know, my father was the best thing that ever happened to me. I believe the trajectory that I was on, interesting enough, I would've probably built a good life. I was capable, I was getting the jobs that I wanted, smart enough, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera.
But I think I would've lived a very average life. I think I would've done what most of my coaching clients do, which is chase the next position, get the bigger house. I think I would've done all that truthfully. Um, but I don't think I would've lived life with any le level of depth. I don't think I would've loved the way I do and connected with people the way I do.
I don't think I would be the father that I am. I don't, yeah, I just, you almost can't convince me that I would be, Had I, had I not lost my dad because I was so insecure [00:20:00] that I would've continued to down the trajectory that I was on because I would've spent my life in camouflage trying to do boom, boom, boom, boom, boom.
I was forced to explore those insecurities and the depths of my pain and whatnot. And so for me, transformation starts with that, which is one of the more difficult things to do for people. Well, I've just moved through this and get onto the next thing. And, and you know, even you mentioning yesterday, right?
Like, I woke up and I just had a deep day of sadness, right? What do typical people do? Move through it. They'll move through it, and then you sit with somebody like me that's probably gonna point out, well, if you just woke up and you couldn't completely pinpoint it, there wasn't like a major life event that happened.
Um, something didn't happen to your chi child, didn't wind up in the hospital with one of these dang illnesses floating around, like nothing big like that happened. You just woke up and, and, and that it's such a looming sadness, a heaviness to you. [00:21:00] What I would say to you is, as introspective as you may think you are and, and actively, intentionally try to be, you're still allowing too much to pile up, right?
So if all of a sudden it just nails you, you know, and I'm still guilty of it. I, I get piled up plenty of times, particularly in the past three years, right? Um, but I do believe that transformation starts with getting in touch with the depths of your own pain. You know, and it's a lot of the work that I do now.
Like I tell people all the time, it's funny because like they'll say if you get in a room with Ted, bring tears, bring up Kleenex and all this other stuff, and I'm like, you know, my wife will tell you like, I'm the goofiest guy around, man. We have a whole lot of laughter in our house. Like I do not live a miserable existence.
Part of that is that I [00:23:00] accept the sorrow. So I will say to, to answer your question, I do believe transformation begins with looking at all of that. Right? And accepting that is, that is part of that. And then finding the spots and the right people in your life to express some of that. So what's the,
[00:23:20] Nathan Hurd: um, yeah, I, I mean, I can feel really what it is, is it's depth.
You live a very deep life and in a, in an incredible way. Uh, at least from my perspective. And, you know, I, I've learned a lot from that, and I do
[00:23:36] Ted Capshaw: as well. It's, it's hard to embrace all of what I, what I'd say is that you have to, you have to see it through if you're gonna, if you're gonna go inward and then go outward with it.
You see what I mean? Like, if you're gonna go inward and explore and then take it outward, meaning show, start showing the world, you will be up against some stuff. You know? I was, I was told I was far too serious. Um, my own mother told me who I have a good [00:24:00] relationship with, but she told me, you take parenting too serious.
I'm like, you're damn right. I do. Right? like you, you're damn right. I do. I love these two kids more than life itself. Like, I'm gonna do everything in my power. And I'm like, but we can't. Mistake. That doesn't, doesn't mean that I, it's not balanced out with a whole lot of joy and a whole lot of laughter and a whole lot of, you know, adventure and all the rest of that.
What I'm saying, Nate, is that most people, it's not balanced the other way we go after this stuff or the material stuff or whatever, and we don't sit with this stuff enough.
[00:24:37] Nathan Hurd: Yeah, it's, it's, I mean, it's very true. I mean, yes, for an ex, for example, yesterday, this doesn't happen to me very often, but it, I mean, it really took me over and I didn't really know why, honestly, it wasn't any particular thing that happened.
But I think to your point, it's just a pile up of things. And my, in the past, you know, um, I think I've evolved a little bit [00:25:00] and I've tr I tried to work on this, but in the past I would probably just try to distract myself, like until it was over, just do anything I could to kind of avoid fully being present with it.
Um, But yesterday I didn't do that. I wasn't trying to distract myself. I wasn't trying to, you know, like snap out of it. I was just acknowledging it and it was hard. See, you know,
[00:25:27] Ted Capshaw: but see, I think that Nate is, you, you, you answered your own question there. I think that is the real, where transformation happens.
You could have chosen to do a lot of things, okay? Now, I'm not proposing that you don't go for a run, but here what I'm saying, I'll just exercise this sadness right outta me. Or I'll drink a six pack tonight and then I'll go to bed and I won't worry about it. You know? And I'm talking about the things that the average person does.
Or I'll just put a smile on my face and, and this is an important one that I think we all should consider. [00:26:00] Or I'll just look around me and see that other people have it worse for me. Therefore, I shouldn't feel the way I feel. Ah, totally. Which totally bothers the heck out of me. Again, I. I always tell people I didn't ask about other people because how many times am I trying to get to where somebody's really feeling and they tell me, look, I, what's the average?
Say I, I could complain, but I won't. Many people have it far worse than me. I'm not asking about other people. How can you transform and get in touch with who you are if all you're doing is spending your days looking around you and going, people have it worse, therefore, I shouldn't feel. Yeah. Which by the way, there, there's the other side of that is looking around you and going, well, I'm gonna go build my vision off what I see around me and you know, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera.
But think about what I'm saying here. You have to give yourself permission to feel what you wanna feel. It doesn't mean that you won't then go, you know, feel for the other person, wrap your arms around somebody else, try to get empathetic for somebody else to understand in their position, et cetera, et cetera.
But [00:27:00] what about you? Yeah. You know, it's like I. Two people lose, one person loses a person, suddenly another person watches somebody die of cancer. Which one's worse? In my opinion, neither. I should be happy that I was able to spend the last six months. At least I didn't lose the person. Suddenly. No, they're gone.
There's no . I don't wanna belabor the point, but here what I'm saying, like you are a very empathetic person. you easily, and you live a very rich life, right? In so many ways. You easily could have yesterday gone, what am I doing? Feeling this way? Like, look around me. I got a beautiful wife, I have two beautiful kids.
I get to do this podcast tomorrow morning. Like this is all gravy. And then, you know, quote unquote snap out of it. That to me is not transformation.
[00:27:51] Nathan Hurd: I totally agree. I totally agree. And I'm, you know, even though, um, I'm not sure I could. I was in touch with [00:28:00] this throughout the day, entirely yesterday. Um, I do recognize now that sitting with it, being with it, accepting it is a process of ultimately allowing it to teach me, you know, allowing my inner wisdom to surface, allowing the people in my life to observe me and relate with me and, and, uh, not trying to run from it is ultimately what, you know, cuz to your point, I mean it's like the, you know, the, um, how many TV shows today are just examples of like, these crazy people that people just watch all day so they can feel better about themselves and Yeah.
Um, alright, so well think
[00:28:39] Ted Capshaw: about it. What, but I do want to add this cause transformation. Yeah. Cause you talked about transformation. I think that's where it starts. Where it continues is when you start to bring other people into your world and let them travel with you. Yeah. That's transforming not only for you, but for them.
Right. So now you have to be courageous enough to start bringing people in, [00:29:00] articulating, expressing, et cetera, all facets of the emotions. But I believe that's when you make, as a practitioner, as a coach, or as a leader, when you start being able to sit with it like you did yesterday and then creating space for other people to sit with their own stuff, you then bring them along on this course of transformation.
[00:29:21] Nathan Hurd: Mm, totally. I, I couldn't agree more. In fact, that's, that's, yeah. That is definitely one of the things I have, I have learned, uh, by being, spending time with you cuz you do that.
[00:29:32] Ted Capshaw: What? And um, and I think the, the vulnerability, right? Vulnerability and leadership, it's talked about all the time, but with given no context, like what we're talking about here.
Yeah. Like, so leaders here, vulnerability, and they're like, well, what do you want me to do? Just go cry in front of somebody. No. Like, so yeah, be human. We could take that all the way left. Yeah. Well,
[00:29:53] Nathan Hurd: let, let me ask you, let me just to close the loop on this there. The specifically, you at one time gave [00:30:00] me a gift and you've given this gift to other people.
And the exercise you had me go through was list out the three worst events in your life and can you please if you would just follow up with what's the other part of that exercise and what does it mean?
[00:30:14] Ted Capshaw: So it's a, you would list the, the three to five worst things that ever happened to you in your life.
And then so on the other, that's on one side of the page. On the other side of the page, write down the three to five best things that ever happened to you in your life. And I believe that when you could take the page, you got page there, when you can start to draw a line and you see that several of them are the same, you start to realize, wow.
I actually transformed something. I, I changed something. So you use the, I use the examples for me. Like I actually have done the exercise, obviously losing my father. Worst thing that ever happened, best thing ever happened. Another one for me that I mentioned in the beginning. That part of my [00:31:00] camouflage of sports, I played D one football.
I blew my knee going into my junior year, never to play again. Back then, worst thing that ever happened to me, it literally is listed as one of the worst things that ever happened to me because there's so much depth underneath of that. It was my identity today, one of the best things ever happened. It freed up my time, my academics went up, my traject, you know what I mean?
Now they don't all line up, right? Because like having my. Like they're not , they're not gonna be listed on the thing. But I would challenge people because the exercise for me just wants to open people up. What opportunities did you miss in those worst things that ever happened to you? Because you only do one of two things when one of these worst things, you either just move through it and get to the other side and go, thank God that's past me.
Or you literally have this opportunity for it to be life changing, but without putting some intention around it and some real action and some vision around it, it will be nothing other than one [00:32:00] of those worst things that ever happened to you. Yeah, yeah, totally. But when they start to line up, you go, oh wow.
Like you, you could have never convinced me in a million years that I'd say losing my dad was the best thing ever to happen to me. And when I first started saying it, you know, 15 years ago or whatever, I was like, it's only for me and him to be understood, cuz nobody's ever gonna understand what I'm saying.
[00:32:21] Nathan Hurd: Yeah, I mean, you know, so many times I think these worst events become just cemented as tragic tragedies and people carry them as this heavy burden. And, um, you know, I've certainly done it at times and I think probably everyone can relate to that. And to be able to transform something that was really, really hard, um, or traumatizing and learn from, you know, learn how you, you know, what parts of you wouldn't be, what strengths do you have?
What expansive awareness do you have? What empathy or compassion do you have [00:33:00] that you probably never would've happened or never would've had, or at least not to the degree that you have it today. Yeah. Because of it, like, it's really amazing. It's really amazing. I, I think it's such a, such a gift. Um, so, alright, so let me ask you, um, Because we've talked about some of the, the, kind of the difficult experiences in your life.
Can you just talk a little bit about the, you know, the life you live today and what this, some of this has led to. So, you know, what in your life today do you consider to be sort of the most enriching or richest, um, part of, of the way you operate? And then ultimately, I wanna head into, you know, how some of your past has brought you into the work that you do today and, and how some of that plays out.
[00:33:49] Ted Capshaw: Yeah. The fir, the easy answer to that is, is commonplace, right? I'm gonna look to one Jackson and Maxwell. Um, but I mean, and you know, that, [00:34:00] um, I live through them. Yeah. Um, I often say that the easiest way for me to describe it is that you talk about, When I, when I get time with my crew, which I get a lot of time with my crew.
Um, one of my business objectives when I started my business was to be at the bus stop 90% of the time. It was a business goal of mine. Like, hear me, like, it was a business goal of mine before there was a revenue goal. It was to be at the bus stop 90% of the time. Like, you know, my fifth grader now would be like, dad, you don't need to be at the bus stop every day.
But like, yeah, I'm still there, you know? Um, but I'm, I feel physically different when I get time with them. I just do, I just feel physically different to them. So I revolve my world, world around them. Some could argue to default, um, but it's part of the reason that I went on the entrepreneurial journey to control my time.
Um, and I've stayed true to that. So here goes those two words again. Mm-hmm. , um, and the work that I do, [00:35:00] you know, I was able to look. It would, and I told you earlier that. I told Angel I the worst that could happen is I have to go get a job. And here I am, 13 years later, without a doubt, five, six, sometimes more than six times a year.
I sit down with Angel in tears. I just can't believe this is the life that we have. And it's not because of the things that we have. And I just can't believe that this worked. I can't believe I'm able to do my life's work. I can't believe I'm able to do my soul work every day. I can't believe that people accepted it.
I can't believe people accepted me and then I can't believe I can go walk my dog at 11:00 AM if I choose to with my wife. Like, I just can't believe it. And so, um, you know, she always tells me, and you know this, she always tells me that, Ted, one day you're gonna have to write the book for. Like, you're gonna have to give them the script that you use because I'm very much under the radar by choice.
Like, my life is exactly what it's supposed to be right now. And my heart's full when I allow that just to be the what I need. Like I don't need the vision more. I don't need to go write a book and. . You know, I always say to my wife, be careful what you asked for. Let's just say I wrote a book and people liked it, and then all of a sudden they were [00:37:00] like, you know, Idaho's calling you and they wanted you to go give a talk.
I don't wanna go give a talk in Idaho . I really don't like, you know, and it's not, not that I go back to that starfish thing. So I do live a, you know, to use the, the caption of your podcast, Nate, I do live a very rich life. Um, but it was a li life completely driven by stay true, completely being honest with myself about what I like.
Um, the ego comes in sometimes and says, you're playing small and you should be doing X, Y, and Z. Bigger and better things and more people should know what you're doing. And man, if people only knew the money that you really made and all those things. And then I have to slow myself down and go Uhuh, which I will say in the context of a podcast, Nate.
I'd like to say that I would challenge our listeners today to think deeply about have they really defined a vision for their life? Have they really, and are they [00:38:00] actually in pursuit of what they really want or what would look good to the world or prove things to certain people? And that's the pool that I'm talking, that's why I say stay true is a very hard thing to do.
Um, so it is,
[00:38:16] Nathan Hurd: it's, I mean, I, I've, I've revisited that question many, many times and the every time I do, I realize that I'm not quite there yet. Like every time I peel back that, that, uh, that question, I always notice that there are parts of it that are in there that somebody else is influenced to get in there.
Right? Like even now. And I've done it so many times, I think in, in my life. So yeah, it's, I mean it's really, really an important question and I think it's a question that you don't. Ever really stop attempting to answer? Like you, you No. It's a question you come back to
[00:38:55] Ted Capshaw: and it evolves, right? Just like you talked about transformation.
It will change [00:39:00] and it will evolve, but it is a deeper thing. I will tell you from the lens of a coach, which I am, um, I hate the word coach, but I'll stick with it. But a guy that does the work that I do, a person that does the work that I do, unfortunately, I would say the larger part of 80, 90% of people that I've come across in the past 15 years doing this work, really has do they do not have a baked out vision that's truthful.
Right. And the example that I often use to articulate it as, you know, I'll come across somebody working for a business and they're in sales and they love sales. Like if we were actually to list out their value, like they love meeting new people. They love the clothes, they, they love it, they love it.
There's everything. They love the flexibility, they love the, the earning potential and all the rest of that stuff. But everything that they're positioning themselves to do in politicking within the company is to get the next level job. They want the director level job, they the VP job. Right? Well, why do you want the VP job?[00:40:00]
Well, I don't, they can't really articulate it by the end of the conversation, they're, they're going, well, I'd probably be kind of miserable in that job. They don't wanna lead people they don't wanna do, you know? But guess what? That's what you do, right? You're in a company, you're a successful salesperson, so what do you do?
You just take the next position. Yeah. Right. Versus going to your question to me, what, how do you want your life to look? And then go reverse engineer the role that you have within a company to fit the life that you want, add a ton of value to the company, maximize your earning potential. But guess what?
You're gonna forgo the VP title. Yeah. Yeah. So we don't think that, and I can't tell you for example, how many salespeople I've talked to and they're like, oh my God, I've never even thought about it like this. So, and it doesn't
[00:40:52] Nathan Hurd: always mean that everything will change, um, necessarily. No, but the, the, it is, sometimes what happens is you just realize you're being [00:41:00] driven by someone else's script and you know, you actually have a script that might well align in many ways with the same pursuits, but, and in many times they do.
Yes, man, it's a big difference when you're, when you're operating from that place. Yes. The other thing I've realized in, in all of this is that as a leader, you know, taking the time to really ask like, what would make this employee's dreams come true? Like, what do they really, really want? Yeah. And am I pushing them to do things that are in alignment with that or not?
And is there a way that I can still create everything in the business that I want to create? And. Show them and coach them and support them to find the real, real depth and richness and the things that they really, really want deep down. Yeah. Um, and sometimes, you know, it is just helping them see it differently, so.
Yeah. Um, well, so Ted, you know, your, your life and your transformation in your, in your own [00:42:00] life had ultimately at some point led you from, you were, as I understand it, you were in corporate America, um, you were an executive in corporate America, and then you decided to make a pretty big change. Could you, just for a second, talk about how that came about and what, what, what pushed you to do it and, and how did you, how did you know that, you know, it was time to do something?
[00:42:21] Ted Capshaw: And what you, yeah, it started, started bigger than what it is now. In other words, I was, I was gonna go change the way things are operate in corporate America and I was a executive, I was a chief learning officer and a coo and I enjoyed those roles, but I just had a burning in my belly. And quite frankly, mate, some of it was what we just talked about.
Some of it was like, I wanted my life to be different. Like I recognized that, again, I was at, I'm at, I'm always at huge risk of going back to normal. That's what I always say to Angel, like, I don't want to go back to normal, which is proving myself getting the executive level role and staying on a trajectory that I was definitely on prior to.
[00:43:00] Right? Right. Um, but eventually I got to the place that I said, I'm gonna go see if I can go test the waters. Now. What I'll say to you is, is there's nothing that I do in my work that's rocket science or that other people aren't doing. And um, there's just a few different things that I believe I do differently.
[00:46:04] Nathan Hurd: You know what Ted, it's like, I, I can just, I'll give you a reflection from, from myself and my, um, my experience has been that, you know, look, business is at the end, it's a human endeavor, right?
So, yeah. And, and we, we, we've heard this and we, you know, but there are still plenty of teams and companies and partnerships that are, you know, at least a good portion of the, of the relationship is transactional or it's oriented towards like, let's get this done, let's get a result. And in the end, what I've always struggled with in business is that if you, if I'm gonna.
You know, so many of my waking hours engaged in this pursuit. Like, you know, personally, I really value the hu human beings in my life, the connection in my life. And I [00:47:00] want that to matter deeply in my work because it's such a big part of the way I spend my time. And so, you know, you, um, my, my, my observation is you've really helped teams.
You've certainly helped our team, but you've helped many others to wake up to the opportunity that lies within all the incredible people in, in an organization and really understanding each other, getting to know each other. Like, I remember when we first started working together, I thought we knew each other pretty well, but as we said before, you know, you can know somebody for 10 years and you quote, know each other.
Yeah. But the way you started this whole conversation is very, very different from what most people do. And, and sometimes people think that's not appropriate in business and all of that, but man, it. It changes things. Yeah, it really does change things about that.
[00:47:49] Ted Capshaw: I'm glad you're taking it here because you can start to tie in, like you asked, like, who I am and my approach and stuff.
You can start to tie in how I balance things out. Like I, I said before, I think people have the imbalance of [00:48:00] not allowing these other emotions, right? And they, they, they don't balance 'em out and knowing that that's appropriate, what I'm trying to do is throw off the balance or I bring things into balances within business, and that's where I lose people too, in that, because, you know, I'll stay deep.
Let's just take an executive team. I'll stay deep, I'll challenge them on very human levels. I'll challenge their interactions, I'll challenge their belief systems. I'll challenge all that stuff. And never once in a six month engagement will I talk about business or numbers. Well, then I start to lose people, right?
What I'm trying to do is bring the balance, right, because the, we know that most people in business are, are balanced up here. Talking about the numbers, performance, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. The risk in there, Nate, this is, goes back to stay true and all that. The risk in that is they start going, well, Ted doesn't care about numbers.
Why are we spending money? Or, you know, there's no business acumen, da da da da. And that's the conviction part, because [00:49:00] I happen to care about money. I happen to know a couple things about business, et cetera, but I am trying to bring things back into balance so that performance does heighten all the rest of that.
But we're afraid we go, like businesses are like human beings. What do we do when things get tough? Right? We go back to our comfort. Let's just talk about the numbers. Let's be experts in this. Let's talk about how to get more revenue. Let's talk about da, da, da. And all of a sudden we lose that thing and we gotta bring it back to balance again real quick.
You know? So I think that's a good way to talk about why I spend the time, you know, doing what I do with, with human beings and businesses and leaders alike. Um, I want to keep that stuff at the forefront because it matters and it matters big time.
[00:49:47] Nathan Hurd: It really does. It really does. And you know, if you can create depth and trust and openness and caring and compassion and all of that, and you can really build it up in a [00:50:00] team, like you literally can, as far as I'm concerned, you can accomplish anything.
You can get through anything. Yeah. And I guess I, I would love to hear your perspective on what's changed in the last couple years. Like, how have you seen your work and businesses and executives, employees, how have you seen things shift most prominently? Um, and what's your perspective on, on what's possible or what, what the opportunity is?
[00:50:26] Ted Capshaw: Well, this might seem like an odd way to answer your question. My world and my work became a ton easier in the past three years. So go back to what I said to you when I said helping people and companies grow before tragedy. The last three years has made people go inward in a way, on a macro level. Like we're all in this together, like we've all experienced so much.
What I mean by it may, lemme put that into context, because my last three years has been nothing, but I mean, it's been heavy, heavy lifting. What I mean by it's made my world easier is [00:51:00] that people are opened up. People are raw right now. You know, you talked about when people come up against hard times in life, they think deeper.
They think deeper about life. You talk about the great resignation. Why did that happen? Partly, at least because people were looking at their life differently. They wanted to squeeze more outta life in a different way. They want a different meaning, levels of meaning. That's what I mean by right now. My message to you and to everybody and to myself is to capture the freaking changes and let this change the trajectory of your life.
What I'm afraid of is that, As soon as things go back to normal and we get some of this war behind us and the pandemic and the comedy comes back and all of a sudden stocks markets are backed up and all this other stuff, we will simply go back to what was, and that's scary to me. So you talked about the transformation and all this, the biggest change from my perspective, Nate, is that people are seeing things differently.
They have been thrown off the normal trajectory as I was on, [00:52:00] and now they're looking at things and they're trying to fulfill us as leaders right now. We're trying to understand all that. What do they want? What do they need? How are we gonna fulfill it? How are we gonna fulfill this for ourselves? Does it mean that I just, you know, there's a lot of hypocrisy going on.
I just wanna work from home. Well, you actually do need human connections. So, you know, or I don't wanna work as hard as I, I wanna go travel the. Well, you haven't lined up your vision yet. Going back to something that I said earlier, you actually need money to line up the world, so you better start performing in your job.
So, you know what I mean? Like there's just a lot of deep thinking right now. Now all of a sudden, people gotta assemble some level of vision on how this is gonna work out for them. But I think the biggest change people are opened up right now and they gotta decide what they're gonna do with it coming out of this, you know, and I don't mean we're just gonna magically be out of the last three years, but it's, it's cha it's monumental shifts within individuals and human beings and cultures within businesses and expectations and all of it.[00:53:00]
Yeah. Monumental shifts.
[00:53:01] Nathan Hurd: Yeah. Yeah. I, I, that's, you know, that's very well said. And, and I, I, I think it's so true that, you know, even before the last three years, you know, when, when it was high times business wise and the economy was great and all of that, I vividly remember. Many of my friends, you know, who you know, are involved in business or run businesses.
And my, and in my own experience, there was plenty that was great, but there was also plenty that was lacking meaning, or lacking depth, or, or there was certainly an opportunity for more of that. What, to your point, what happened was through a difficult experience, we were face-to-face with it and we didn't have a choice but to confront it.
And it's, um, it's, what's what's ironic is when times get hard in business, the tendency is to, oh, well, you know, the business is in trouble. So let's go back to, you know, let's go [00:54:00] back to basics. Let's look at the numbers, let's say focus on the numbers. But, um, you know, I've always really felt like there, you know, the, the strength of the team and the, the meaning that people derive from the work to begin with.
Um, is such an important part of quote success. Like if you simply transactionally succeed and financially succeed and that that's, that's the one part of it. Um, number one, I think you're giving up upside. Number two, I think you're definitely giving up the potential impact you can make on the customers or communities you serve.
And, and so I, I just think that's, you know, I think it's a really good point and I, I, I too, uh, hope and reflect on that as well. Um, alright, well listen, one other thing that I wanted to touch before we close here is, you mentioned this before, but I do think that there's an impression, I still am guilty of this, where I'll observe someone who's really [00:55:00] succeeded in a certain way, in a, you know, professional capacity.
They've built an amazing career or reputation or what have you, but to my eyes, they went all in on that. And in order to get. To a certain height or distance, you know, in one area, whether you choose it to be your professional career or your financial situation, or on the other side, your family, that you really have to make major sacrifice.
You, to me, are an example of busting that myth and, and proving it wrong. Um, given the, the way that you've, you know, unfolded your life. So what could you tell people listening about what you've discovered in your own life and through coaching other people, many of whom are executives and leaders and, you know, running companies, et cetera, about what's possible and what they should consider aspiring towards or thinking [00:56:00] about.
You think about the, what you just brought up, like the times, the last three years. I think we're still, I think people are trying to figure out, is it either or? Am I gonna go work hard? Am I gonna go work the corporate job? Am I gonna do all these things or am I gonna have freedom and flexibility? No, you're gonna have both, right?
And that's where I'm coaching people. I believed with high levels of conviction and there's layers to this. Number one, go back to your question about transformation. Part of transformation as you get foot on path and you get in touch with deep sorrows and all the other side of that that we didn't get to is somewhere in there you become to really believe in your value.
And so, um, When I said earlier that Angel says, write the script, I have one, I [00:58:00] do have time. I am at the bus stop. Um, I'm not gonna disclose my finances, but I am financially secure. , right? Um, and that's when she tells people like, you know, people are trying to figure you out. Ted, she always says that to me.
Like, nobody can figure you out because you're so, you're always talking so deep to people. You're talking to this thing and you've built this amazing life. And I, when I say amazing life, not in a way that you and I talked about before, but financially, you know, um, which again, I think is another thing to touch on.
I want two things that I want for anybody that I walk with to include you. And that's fulfillment and prosperity. And I always say not one without the other. I want both for people. And the reason I say that is because sometimes you start coaching somebody and they go, well, I'm not fulfilled in a job, so I'm gonna go over here and I'm gonna paint murals and you're gonna be broke.
Doing those murals. And so I don't want, so I want people to be [00:59:00] fulfilled in what they do, but they think sometimes I gotta grab all my fulfillment from work and all this other stuff. No, you gotta make your own fulfillment. But I also don't want you chasing fulfillment and not prosperity or the other way around.
I mean, I can't tell you how many people I've coached in their fifties and sixties that actually have prospered. They have plenty of money, but they have completely foregone levels of fulfillment first at home and second within their career because they were just trying to create this financial, you know, financial world that was surpasses what they grew up with or whatever.
Or, or it was. And so I want those two things and I want people to believe that you can have both.
[00:59:41] Nathan Hurd: I remember you telling me stories about how, you know, you were in corporate America and there was a bunch of people that were consistently staying in after five and grinding it out.
And they were looking at you cuz you would take off right at the end of the day and wondering what was going on. And you said, well, you know,
[01:00:50] Ted Capshaw: this,
[01:00:51] Nathan Hurd: you know, they were asking what your priorities were and whether or not the business was important and what was more important. And you said, well, this is the most [01:01:00] important thing.
Like, I'm not gonna lie to you. Well, it's
[01:01:02] Ted Capshaw: inter think about that because I think what you're bringing up is important because we leaders, I'll speak to leaders right now, and I'm talking about leaders at home, leaders in within business or whatever. We claim that our top priority is to help people achieve their own personal visions.
And yet we rag on them for leaving at five o'clock and then we peel 'em back. And I, I'm not getting at the time here, so don't hear me, that people don't work hard, but. I want, if I say that I want to help somebody create a life that they want, and part of that life is like they can't wait to get home to the family that they love so much.
How the heck am I gonna bastardize 'em when they leave at five? My answer to what you're bringing up was, you know, it seems like you can't wait to leave here. I can't , I wanna get hold of my family. That does not mean I didn't go all in for the last freaking eight hours, right? So please don't miss that.
This, this is the conviction in both, [01:02:00] which then, and I know podcast could go for hours and hours, which then leads into you're more focused at work. You are absolutely gonna do what needs to get done to create the monetary world that you want to create, gain the respect that you want, and to get home on time to your beautiful family.
You know what I mean?
[01:02:30] Nathan Hurd: No, I, I, I mean, I absolutely would, I would love to, but I'll tell you what, why don't we try to summarize, so for anybody who's listening, um, let's maybe try to summarize some of the core, uh, things that you touched on, and if they're, if they're in the midst of, you know, that process, which I think a lot of people definitely still are, of evaluating what's most important and how to balance things in their life.
Um, where would you suggest they start and, you know, what are some of the [01:03:00] questions or observations that you come back to consistently that you would offer to them or invite them to come back to consistently? Can you, what are
[01:03:10] Ted Capshaw: some parting words? Answer the question truthfully. How are you? Like if we wanted to like have somebody walk away from here with a takeaway, cuz that brings us back to what you talked about yesterday.
You woke up with this just immense feeling of sadness. Ask yourself that on the regular and be truthful with yourself. Don't give the answer to yourself that you give for the world. How are you feeling? I'm good. I'm getting by. Or use humor to cover up whatever it is. Answer the question truthfully. And I do believe that's part of putting foot on path towards transformation.
Like getting honest with yourself about where you are right after that. Start bringing people into it. My suggestion would be to start bringing in your family, a spouse, a best friend or whatever, and let them know the depths of where you are. What you will find is that it's reciprocated, then connections will, and this whole thing will start flowing.
And [01:04:00] so I do believe it starts there, right? A simple question that's absolutely complex, particularly given some of the context that we talked about today, the last three years. Um, I think that is an important point. . I think the other thing that you touched on earlier is, which goes along here, who are you?
And I didn't know, we didn't go deep into that, but you asked me this question earlier. I can tell you the who are you is a huge part of work that I do with leaders because unfortunately, many people don't know. I got forced to explore that 25 years ago. And believe me when I tell you, I thought I knew who I was, but I did not know who I was.
And I'm still searching. But I can tell you I'm, I'm pretty convicted in who I am today. Most people haven't explored that question deeply after that question. Then comes, what do you really want outta life? Which is the vision thing. And we didn't get deep into the pillars of vision and all that, but um, these are important questions, otherwise we're [01:05:00] gonna do nothing bes besides get through, perhaps build a life that seemingly looks great to everything.
It's ironic that we're talking after the, this. This mogul, and I didn't really know him well, but the twitch that everybody's talking about right now, committed suicide on the outside, had all this wonderful thing. And I just don't want that for anybody.
[01:05:21] Nathan Hurd: All right. So, so to to, to put up Beau on this, um, when you mentioned this earlier, but it's a great way to summarize when asking the question, who are you?
I mean, that is a, feels like a very big question, but I believe what you said earlier, and perhaps this is what we can offer to people listening is asking that question. Maybe start by writing down, if you really wanted to know who I am, what would you need to know? Yeah. About me.
[01:05:48] Ted Capshaw: Who are you? Is not, let me tell you what it's not.
It's not, I'm a husband, I'm a father. Cuz that's the answer that you get. Or it's, you know, you know, it's not, I like to, I'd like to do things. I I didn't ask you what [01:06:00] your hobbies are. I, a I ask you, I'm asking you what your makeup is. You know, what parts of your life or what timeframes in your life have defined the way you see the world.
You know, the way you believe certain things, the why you're so vulnerable in certain spots, you know? So they have to do some exploring there. Beautiful,
[01:06:22] Nathan Hurd: beautiful. And then, um, I guess the last thing is, I don't know if you, you can, if you wanna do this or not, but, um, you mentioned vision as a kind of a third step.
Is it, do you, are you able to go through just the pillars of vision and have, give people a seed to plant?
[01:06:40] Ted Capshaw: What, what I realize, Nate, this is interesting that you're asking this question cuz this is something that I'm flushing out for myself.
This is a true story because you can imagine in my world that a lot of executive teams and our teams or or individuals are just saying, Hey, can, can you do a vision exercise with us? And I started realizing that. I was just missing the mark. These conversations [01:07:00] never got to where they needed to go. And what I, what I'm realizing is that I think it needs to be broken up.
And what does vision really encompass? And so I started thinking about pillars and I'll just spit some out now. Um, one pillar is time. Like how do you really wanna spend your time? I go back to the salesperson that actually wants to spend their time selling, right? Or somebody says that they wanna spend their time doing X and then they're in a job that allows no time.
Or they say they wanna spend whatever it means you have to explore time and then you start to have to create a world. So vision is about creating a world that you wanna live in. Fulfillment and prosperity. So the time values, right? I think people have done. What are down versions of values work within their world, both as individuals and as teams.
Like what do you really value? And then the important question that I always ask behind that, are you actually making life and business decisions around what you value? [01:08:00] That's the, that's the crux of really proving out that you value something. So if you value creativity and you're wearing a job that only requires you to plug in numbers, are you living within your, no wonder you're miserable, right?
Like so you think about the idea of values. Legacy for me is a huge one, and it's because of, I talked about my father earlier, Nate, when I realized that my two young sons look at me in the same way that I looked at my dad, when I realized that I could have the impact on them negatively or positively, and change the way they live or believe or see the world, I realized that part of my vision had to be.
That I had to have legacy for them and everybody that I work with. So we have to start to understand the impact that we have on people, even though we might not think it, everybody we come into contact with, we have some level of impact on them. Yeah. And so legacy for me is an important part of [01:09:00] my vision because it talks about behaviors and decisions that I make, et cetera.
Um, and then I'll just throw this one in there because it's a huge one, but this required depth of conversation, which we didn't get to today, which would be my norm, which is money, right? You gotta map out the kind of life that you want, and then you gotta figure out a plan to get there. And this is where the either or this is where you're start drawing arrows and mind mapping this beautiful life that you're gonna.
To find a way to make the money that you need to support the life that you want. If one of your values is travel and life experience, how are you gonna make the money that you want to do that and go provide the value. But the money thing is something that, you know, I didn't talk much about until the past four or five years.
And now it's a, uh, it's right at the top of all my conversations with clients and friends alike. Like, it's an important part of vision, but notice that it's at the bottom of the vision. Cause if you map out this other stuff, then you gotta support it.
[01:09:56] Nathan Hurd: Yeah, yeah. And exactly. And that's what money really is, right?
It's a [01:10:00] tool. It's not a means, it's not an, it's not an end in itself. It's just a tool to create other outcomes. And so I I love that you, that you view it that way. Well, Ted, it's been, uh, it's as always, man, it's been such a, such a gift and a pleasure. If, if people wanted to connect with you, is there, you know, is there a good place to find you and or reach out
[01:10:21] Ted Capshaw: to you?
There's not a great place to find me. It's ted ted cap.com. Anybody can email me. Um, but again, to the state, true part, I wrote a blog years ago. I haven't written for, it's still up there. It's ted's truth.com. But in staying in, in line with what I do, I don't have a website. I don't do much social media, if at all.
There's not, not a lot going on because, you know, my world is, has provided me with everything that I want right now, . And so I don't really expand outside of that. And so, um, but again, firstname.lastname@example.org, Ted's Truth is a, is a, [01:11:00] is a, you can go read some old blogs. There's a bunch of blogs on there that would cover some of the stuff that we talked about today, but yeah, they're excellent.
[01:11:08] Nathan Hurd: Yeah. All right. Thank you so much. It's been, uh, it's been amazing and I hope you have an incredible holiday and I, uh, I look forward to seeing you again soon. Amen,
[01:11:19] Ted Capshaw: brother. Thanks. Good to be with you today. Yeah, you too, man.